Tire guru's....whats up with this funky wear?

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Dr. Marneaus
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Tire guru's....whats up with this funky wear?

Post by Dr. Marneaus »

So, I have ASSUMED I have a balance issue on my front end tires for quite some time now. When doing maybe 55-60mph I get a decent shimmy/wobble, then it smooths right out before 65. It wasnt bad, it has been this way since before I moved to reno (read: maybe a year and several thousand miles at this point). I never got around to addressing it because at cruising speed it was not apparent. On my recent weekend trip, I noticed it was a little more wobbly and also that my front drivers side tire was just being obnoxiously loud at highway speed. Got home and took a look and saw some weird stuff.

Disclaimer #1 : I have known I had some excessive outside wear on my front tires in the past, and had the thing aligned maybe 10 months ago before moving, and rotated the tires at the same time. The slight shimmy was still there.

Disclaimer #2: These tires are 6 or so years old and have been mostly stored outside. They are hard, dry, and starting to get dry rot cracks. It has been my goal to replace them due to age not wear for the past year or so, but I cannot financially cover that at the time. Lets focus on the odd wear for a moment.

Notes:

-The rear tires are evenly worn. The passenger front tire does exhibit a little more wear on the outside than the center, but lacks any severe oddness like above.

-All 4 tires are at 30-31 PSI.

-I had these mounted at a kinda sketchy 24 hour Llanteria in vegas because no normal places will put a 33x10.50 on a 6" wide rim because it is not manufacturer recommended.

Anyway, note that on many of the lugs, the front edge is higher.
Image
Image

You can see that in this pic as well, and also note that every other or every few other lugs are significantly lower than the others.
Image
Image

You can see the outside edges are worn more, but also every other outside edge lug has more wear (no siping left) but also many of the center lugs are worn more, in a much more RANDOM seeming pattern:
Image
Image

This is how this tire is balanced:
Image

I figure this is "cupping" but it seems more random. I read the main cause of cupping is something worn in the steering/suspension. All components are new up here except the wheel bearings. Shocks are new within the last few thousand miles, ball joints are new and have no play with the tire off the ground, steering is all new with no "play" when lifted off the ground (it moves slightly side to side but moves the other tire the same amount, and moves the steering wheel as well, its not slop in any TRE's or anything), the bushings in the spring are good. Everything feels good and tight up there from when I swapped in my rebuilt axle.

Is this even "cupping"? Does the fact that it seems so randomized, coupled with my 55mph shimmy/wobble/vibe point to the fact that this is simply caused by being out of balance? Am I forgetting to check some suspension/steering component that could have caused this tire to start cupping so badly?

Can i have the tire balanced, then rotated to the opposite rear side and hope it wears out a little more evenly and lasts until I can afford a new set of tires?
Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic jam that makes me the bitter fool I am But this four-wheel buggy is A-dollaring me to death.
For gas and oils and fluids and grease, And wires and tires and anti freeze....And them accessories, Well honey, that's something else.
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Curly
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Re: Tire guru's....whats up with this funky wear?

Post by Curly »

Cupping is usually balance or shock problems. If both tires are doing this, I'd look into checking the toe. BTW, I've enjoyed following your build thread on Expo Portal.

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az chip
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Re: Tire guru's....whats up with this funky wear?

Post by az chip »

I had some weird wear on my '04 Suburban. It was the wheels themselves that were out of round from an accident. I specifically asked for them to check them for damage becuase I hit a curb after I was hit. So, are the wheels true?
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Re: Tire guru's....whats up with this funky wear?

Post by Tad »

That actually looks like better than average wear for KM2's.
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Re: Tire guru's....whats up with this funky wear?

Post by csuengr »

The problem with knobby tires is they have to be rotated every 2000 miles. I work with two people who each have JK's with similar tires. They didn't rotate as needed and now their front tires are shot. The wear you pictured looks normal for that kind of tread. When I had my CJ with those tires, not only did I rotate front to back, but had them dismounted and flipped. I got good life out of those tires.
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Dr. Marneaus
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Re: Tire guru's....whats up with this funky wear?

Post by Dr. Marneaus »

Tad wrote:That actually looks like better than average wear for KM2's.
This is more or less what I'm hearing from a number of people. Strange that the other 3 are worn pretty much normal.
csuengr wrote:The problem with knobby tires is they have to be rotated every 2000 miles. I work with two people who each have JK's with similar tires. They didn't rotate as needed and now their front tires are shot. The wear you pictured looks normal for that kind of tread. When I had my CJ with those tires, not only did I rotate front to back, but had them dismounted and flipped. I got good life out of those tires.
i'm also hearing i need to rotate the hell out of them to keep things fairly normal. At the rate I drive i'm pretty sure had I rotated more often I probably wouldnt have noticed any problems even after these 5 years of ownership. My bad I guess.
Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic jam that makes me the bitter fool I am But this four-wheel buggy is A-dollaring me to death.
For gas and oils and fluids and grease, And wires and tires and anti freeze....And them accessories, Well honey, that's something else.
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FSJunkie
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Re: Tire guru's....whats up with this funky wear?

Post by FSJunkie »

Well first off they're MT's which wear like crap anyway.

Second the steering geometry of an early Wagoneer is less advanced than a 1930's Packard, and also designed for bias ply tires not radials.

Third your tires are too wide for your rim so the tire squirms all over the road. You should see what they do while cornering. More like sidewall cornering.

Bad shocks can do this. Even if they feel tight when compressed by hand the valving can go bad and let the wheel vibrate at speed.
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Re: Tire guru's....whats up with this funky wear?

Post by KJ Ryu »

You should see what my Iroks look like. 37x14 bias plys on 16x10 rims. Recommended minimum is 11" wide though. Yours look fine, to me. Just start rotating them.
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Re: Tire guru's....whats up with this funky wear?

Post by prairiejeeper »

I am running cheap Federal Couragia M/Ts and they don't wear anything like a BFG, I have no cupping at all. You need a perfect alignment with all new steering and suspension bits and pieces to make BFGs stop cupping, something about those tires just amplify any imperfection. I don't buy into assumptions that mud tires just cup because "mud tires", if that were the case you would see rear tires cupping. Parts wear out, find the worn part(s) and replace. In this case, the size of rim isn't helping one bit. But you say you have a shimmy which means there is an imperfection somewhere. Maybe a bent rim, I do see a lot of weights in use. Or the tire is separating from age.
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Re: Tire guru's....whats up with this funky wear?

Post by carnuck »

BFGs have sucked on all my 4x4s. I got a set of brand new 33/9.50/15s and traded them in after 2 weeks driving in the rain for a used set of Big O MSRs the same size. Night and day difference!
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Re: Tire guru's....whats up with this funky wear?

Post by Dr. Marneaus »

Well.

I just bit the bullet and ordered a set of brand spankin' new BFG all Terrain KO2's. They were on sale. On top of the tires for my pickup, that means i've spent like 1000 on tires this month. UGH.
Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic jam that makes me the bitter fool I am But this four-wheel buggy is A-dollaring me to death.
For gas and oils and fluids and grease, And wires and tires and anti freeze....And them accessories, Well honey, that's something else.

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Re: Tire guru's....whats up with this funky wear?

Post by KJ Ryu »

Not so bad. I paid that much for the 4 tires that are on my 1-tonned J10. And that much, AGAIN, for the rims.
Ron

2005 KJ, Hit-n-Run, 2am 6-17-2012, Totaled. :mad:
1977 SJ J10, 4v360, T18, D20, 37x14s, SOA & SF on tons, still ugly.
1978 SJ Wagoneer, 4v360, QT, 33x12.5s, lift by Sawzall :-bd NOT Running :(
1977 SJ J10, SniperEFI 401, QT, D44s, 31X10.5s :fsj:
2006 KJ
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Re: Tire guru's....whats up with this funky wear?

Post by Lumpskie »

Wow, it seems like a good deal to get 2 sets for $1000. I'm usually excited when I can get a set of 33s for my truck for under $800. Where'd you buy them?
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Re: Tire guru's....whats up with this funky wear?

Post by Dr. Marneaus »

Lumpskie wrote:Wow, it seems like a good deal to get 2 sets for $1000. I'm usually excited when I can get a set of 33s for my truck for under $800. Where'd you buy them?

Got the BFG's from 4 wheel parts. $145 each was the sale price. $580 for a set of 4.

Paid like $380 for the 32's on the truck.
Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic jam that makes me the bitter fool I am But this four-wheel buggy is A-dollaring me to death.
For gas and oils and fluids and grease, And wires and tires and anti freeze....And them accessories, Well honey, that's something else.
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