74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

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volkswaben
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74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by volkswaben »

I am in the process of rebuilding my AMC 360 for my 74' Cherokee. I'm in California and the 74' doesn't have to be smogged and has a clean title. I was searching on Craigslist the other day and found a 79' 4 door Cherokee for $400 with a salvage title. I picked it up and realized I really like the 4 door wagoneer style body much better, and would rather put my time and money into restoring that. The 79' is auto and quadratrac, so I would take my 3sp manual and Dana 20 from the 74'. The 79' body is also as rust free as they come, while the 74' has some rust floor boards and some bubbling in the rear flares. I was wondering if it is possible to swap the vins somehow so I don't have to pass smog? I'd preferably like to keep the 79' body and frame as it is extremely straight and is the later suspension setup so I can buy a lift kit. Any thoughts on what I should do?

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Last edited by volkswaben on Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
1974 Cherokee 360/T15
1979 Cherokee - parts rig/ future project?
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REDONE
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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by REDONE »

Legally you can't do it. That said, the laws were written to target car thieves and chopshops, so a guy combining two cars he legally owns to make one good one isn't against the "spirit" of the law, only the "letter". Doesn't mean your junk won't get confiscated and crushed if you're caught, though.
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
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fulsizjeep
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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by fulsizjeep »

I watched someone change a VIN plate once on a Wagoneer firewall. Am I an accessory to a crime? I feel mostly honey badger about it.
Flint Boardman
88 GW, 401/727/208, 5" lift, D44s/4.10s/locked up, 35s
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tgreese
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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by tgreese »

As above, swapping titles is illegal. If you obey the law, you can't do it.

The frame of the Jeep will have the sequential serial number stamped into it, which should match the VIN. The two Jeeps are different models, and this is present in the VIN. This is obvious by reading the TSM, and likely comes up on your LEO's vehicle description. The transmission type also shows up in the VIN.

I don't see much you can do except pick one or the other. I'd say look around for the car you want, except there are not many pre-76 Wagoneers out there with a manual transmission.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
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REDONE
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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by REDONE »

fulsizjeep wrote:I watched someone change a VIN plate once on a Wagoneer firewall. Am I an accessory to a crime? I feel mostly honey badger about it.
Hahaha! While I have stronger feelings about it than a honey badger, I'm with you. I don't have a moral opposition to car enthusiasts circumnavigating the complete nonsense legally required by misguided litigation, especially when the laws aren't enforced upon those it was intended to target; but instead upon those collaterally effected by it.
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.
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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by fulsizjeep »

This aggression will not stand man! :mrgreen:

Just don't go by the VIN decal on the driver door frame. Ask me how I know this, or don't. 8-)
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babywag
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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by babywag »

REDONE wrote:Legally you can't do it. That said, the laws were written to target car thieves and chopshops, so a guy combining two cars he legally owns to make one good one isn't against the "spirit" of the law, only the "letter". Doesn't mean your junk won't get confiscated and crushed if you're caught, though.
Agreed, it gets done often in CA...
However there is a huge red flag with this particular swap, as tgreese stated the differing body types.
Visible on title & registration. Any routine check by a leo while you're tooling around and they will likely notice.
May not end well for you? If you're unlucky you'll lose your ride, possibly worse.
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)
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Tatsadasayago
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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by Tatsadasayago »

The 79 will have a drivers side drop so you would have to use the 74s front axle...
Regarding the VIN, It is best to avoid discussing your plans in a public forum. That being said, if one chooses to do this, it must be done properly.

I found a 77 Chief back in 2009. I asked the owner about the title and registration, both of which were clear and legit except the title stated it was a 74. I immediately checked the firewall plate, door decal and frame to confirm they all matched. I bought the Chief and took her home. I was able to title the Chief in my name here in California without incident. When I went to title it in Montana the VIN discrepancy flagged the registration process and triggered a VIN inspection. After the MHP officer confirmed all numbers matched the title/reg Montana allowed me to register it as a 74.

During this inspection I asked the officer what would have happened had everything not matched. He told me I would have likely been charged with 'Altering or disguising the identity of a machine/vehicle' and possibly others. He further stated that had the VINs not matched, the jeep would have been impounded as well.

He did tell me that depending on the state/county, you may be able to have the VIN plates legally transferred if you have both titles and tell DMV or highway/state patrol the 74 engine, transmission and axles were installed in the 79.

Proceed at your own peril...
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tgreese
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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by tgreese »

'79 is passenger drop. '80 is the watershed year.

There are plenty of practical reasons to go ahead ... you shed the salvage title, you keep the manual transmission, you keep the '74 title which is desirable in CA, you get 4 doors, you use the better body steel, you get the superior electrical of the '79, lots of reasons.

Personally I would much prefer the 2-door body. And it's the first year of production for the Cherokee. It ceases to be a Cherokee if it's a '74 4-door.

Only one reason not to, other than the effort involved.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
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volkswaben
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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by volkswaben »

Ok guys, thanks for the info. I'll think about it and see what happens when I get my 360 put back together. I might just leave the 74, and use parts from the 79' to improve the 74. Kinda torn though because I do like the 4 door versatility.
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tgreese
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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by tgreese »

If you really want to do this, consult the DMV and/or a lawyer, or maybe your local CHP office. Potentially you could legally transfer the 4-door body to the '74 frame and keep the '74 title with the '74 frame and a new body. That may be allowed. It depends on jurisdiction, whether the title goes with the body or rolling chassis. If you get "permission," get something in writing if you can and document the work with pictures.

IMO it would be a bit sad that you destroy a first-year Cherokee with a manual transmission to make what is basically a Wagoneer. A 2-door model with a manual transmission should be the more valuable car, but folks are nutty for Wagoneers...
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
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letank
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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by letank »

the biggest headache is that the body of the 79 will not match the frame of the 74, there are differences started in 76 when the rear spring were moved and the post mount deleted, it affected the way the body is bolted to the frame starting at the rear section by the front of the rear wheel well to before the bumper mount. If you like the 4 door, there is a 73 wagoneer on CL in the sacto area.
As said above the DMV is more likely to say no, but it does not hurt to ask.
Michel
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volkswaben
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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by volkswaben »

Thanks for all the advice guys. I think I'll just leave the 74' because it is unique and I haven't seen another one in real life. I'll probably transfer upgrades such as the front disc brakes, tilt column, and ac parts from the 79'.

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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by will e »

Question: If I roll my Cherokee and swap a different body onto it, does the combined truck become the VIN on the frame or the VIN on the body?
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by Stuka »

will e wrote:Question: If I roll my Cherokee and swap a different body onto it, does the combined truck become the VIN on the frame or the VIN on the body?
Follows the chassis and drive train.
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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by babywag »

Stuka wrote:
will e wrote:Question: If I roll my Cherokee and swap a different body onto it, does the combined truck become the VIN on the frame or the VIN on the body?
Follows the chassis and drive train.
When the DMV inspected my f250 they never even looked @ frame.
door jamb vin and dash vin.
When they inspected my '79 cherokee they only looked @ body as well.
When I had my '73 inspected again all they looked @ was body.

Maybe chp is more thorough?
Neither of jeeps had a full vin stamped on frame so they probably didn't care.
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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by Stuka »

babywag wrote:
Stuka wrote:
will e wrote:Question: If I roll my Cherokee and swap a different body onto it, does the combined truck become the VIN on the frame or the VIN on the body?
Follows the chassis and drive train.
When the DMV inspected my f250 they never even looked @ frame.
door jamb vin and dash vin.
When they inspected my '79 cherokee they only looked @ body as well.
When I had my '73 inspected again all they looked @ was body.

Maybe chp is more thorough?
Neither of jeeps had a full vin stamped on frame so they probably didn't care.
If you have to go to a referee here, they are VERY thorough.
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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by will e »

If the time comes that I have beat the Cherokee so bad it's time to do the swap I will check with the local DMV. Of course if the doner is solid I could swap the drive train instead. I assume I am at the point now that, with the drive train, I am independent of most WT Cherokee years?
It would be a completed engine/trans/TC/axles swap.
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge
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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by fulsizjeep »

tgreese wrote:IMO it would be a bit sad that you destroy a first-year Cherokee with a manual transmission to make what is basically a Wagoneer. A 2-door model with a manual transmission should be the more valuable car, but folks are nutty for Wagoneers...
I do like the 4 doors but I also prefer and admire 74 Cherokees over all the other Cherokees. :-bd

I got to see my first one on a California show room floor in the Fall of 73. I fell in love with Sunshine Yellow wrapped around a 401 that day.
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Re: 74' Cherokee drivetrain and title swap to 79'?

Post by Nikkormat »

If you part it out let me know, I need basically and entire rear half of a 74 or 75 Cherokee. Or heck, a whole 74 or 75 Cherokee. But yours may be as far gone as mine.

When I looked into this before the legality was all very sketchy. The unofficial answer I got from a highway patrolman off duty was to weld a large portion of the old body to the new one. And call it a patch panel. Like whole fire wall large. And he said use whatever frame the vin matches. Which won't do you any good as the 74 frame would only really work well with a 75 or older Jeep.
Gabe, "reformed" Jeep hoarder.
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