Another rear window glass question...

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Topic author
edognight
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:32 pm

Another rear window glass question...

Post by edognight »

In other news, I can't get my rear window glass to work. I have done a bunch of searching and...

1983 jeep wagoneer. Rusty brown. rear glass no work. was stuck in the up position. I took everything apart, and trouble shoots everything...

-the front switch has power to it, and the up (i forget what color) works when tested with a test light. the down works when pressed on the switch. conclusion, the front switch works.

-the motor has been rebuilt by a local electric rebuild shop, he said it tested perfect, and works when jumped to the battery. conclusion: motor is good.

-rear switch works when turned with a key, and sends 12.5 volts to the wire leading to the motor (motor is unhooked and wire would be hooked to the motor, but is being tested with multi meter) so the motor is getting power, and the rear switch works when turned right or left (up or down). motor is mounted to the regulator, because i read that is how it grounds...

-so. motor is being "told" to turn and getting power, but doesnt work. the rear switch is sending power to the motor, but the front switch isnt.

safety switch has been tested, and seems to work...

regulator seems ok.

I worked on it all day, and needed to put it down, and need some help...it seems like it might be a ground, but I can't figure out how the whole thing gets grounded.

Also, I understand the guy on another Jeep forum (Rick Serehill) who made a kit for the rear window motor on fsjeeps died, (and I am sad to hear this on a personal level).
User avatar

jsinajeep
Posts: 1850
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Location: Brownsburg Indiana

Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by jsinajeep »

I would hook up another ground wire from the motor and to the frame to be sure you are getting a good ground
to the tail gate/motor.

candymancan
Posts: 3652
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:32 pm

Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by candymancan »

check the motor yourself. Like said above. All you habe to do is find some scrap wire.. Put on on positive on your battery one on negative anf put them in the plug on your motor.

Doesnt matter which plug. They are reverse poloraity for going up and down. If it doesnt work then you need a new motor. I actually have a spare working motor if yours turns out to be dead.
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)

Topic author
edognight
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:32 pm

Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by edognight »

thanks for getting back so quickly...The motor does work if it gets jumped off to the battery. There is no ground run to the motor, just two wires, one when the up is pushed from the back switch, the other when the down is pushed. I am not sure where to run a ground from, both the wires are 'hot' there is no dedicated ground...

So, shoiuld the motor have a ground? I can't find evidence of one...it's just hooked to the regulator.

Topic author
edognight
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:32 pm

Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by edognight »

Upon doing more research, I am just going to do the three relay solution, and run a dedicated ground and hot to the rear window, etc. At first, the wiring diagram made no sense to me, but the more I looked, the more sense it made...

SJTD
Posts: 1924
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Location: Lompoc, Sunland or somewhere between

Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by SJTD »

Grounding the motor does nothing; the case is isolated from the electrics. As mentioned above the polarity on the leads is reversed to control motor direction.

I don't know why you need three relays. Two will do it. There's a recent post on the other site where I feller was doing relays with a diagram.
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.

ShagWagon
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Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:13 pm

Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by ShagWagon »

One wire from the motor goes to the front + and one to the frame ground -. Follow the one that goes to the frame and make sure it gets 12.5ish to the end of it when you activate the switch. If it doesn't work backwards from there. Clean it up if it don't. You can run a second wire to another frame ground to make sure.

That's where I'd start. Could be 99 other things along the way.
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.

Topic author
edognight
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:32 pm

Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by edognight »

I was going to do it like this...

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=150627

sorry, I don't know how to post an image...

haynesm
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:08 pm

Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by haynesm »

top left corner of the tail gate has safety switch to keep you from opening your window with the tail gate open. I had trouble opening at one point and bypassed this safety and it allowed me to open the window. point is could this safety be causing you a problem.

SJTD
Posts: 1924
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Location: Lompoc, Sunland or somewhere between

Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by SJTD »

Oops, it was on this site: http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtop ... 11&t=13217

Looks cleaner than the arrangement you linked. I still don't see why three relays? I hate it when guys draw these diagrams without showing the contacts schematically.
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.

candymancan
Posts: 3652
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:32 pm

Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by candymancan »

Yes the safety switch like mentioned could be bad as well.
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)
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dodgerammit
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Location: Middle TN

Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by dodgerammit »

OP's original post states he has tested the switch. still, a jumper wire could be used to bypass the switch and double verify the problem isn't there.

As mentioned, the motor is simply polarity sensitive. With the motor still in the tailgate, unplug pigtail and run alligator style jumper leads from each terminal to battery.

IMPORTANT! MAKE SURE YOU HAVE PLENTY OF SLACK IN THE JUMPER LEADS AND YOUR HANDS ARE OUT OF THE WAY OF THE MOTOR AND WINDOW SCISSORS BEFORE YOU TOUCH THE LEADS TO THE BATTERY!!!!

It doesn't matter which way you hook them to the battery. If the motor doesn't work one way, just reverse the connections at the battery.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

92 Wrangler Islander 4.0/32RH/231 D30/D35 RHD

ShagWagon
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Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by ShagWagon »

No shortage of help here right?
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.

Topic author
edognight
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:32 pm

Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by edognight »

My understanding is, the reason for the three relays is one is for the up circuit, one is for the down circuit, and one is a 'super ground' that gets grounded to the chassis, as well as running only one wire to the battery. the original designer, if you look at his post, said he could run one wire to the battery ground, and something about not wanting back flow of electricity, yadda yadda yadda. I really don't get it either, but I know butkus about electricity. I am going to try it, what is another 6$ among friends, when you finally get the GD tailgate to work?

Topic author
edognight
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:32 pm

Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by edognight »

And thanks for all the help! Happy Thanksgiving!!

ShagWagon
Posts: 702
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:13 pm

Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by ShagWagon »

I use a clamp or vise grips to hold the safety switch if you don't have a partner for testing.

I bypassed mine. Nobody's really that dumb to operate when the tailgate is down right?
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.
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dodgerammit
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Location: Middle TN

Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by dodgerammit »

ShagWagon wrote:No shortage of help here right?
:lol:
I think we've all been in the tailgate of these things.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

92 Wrangler Islander 4.0/32RH/231 D30/D35 RHD
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dodgerammit
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Location: Middle TN

Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by dodgerammit »

ShagWagon wrote:I use a clamp or vise grips to hold the safety switch if you don't have a partner for testing.

I bypassed mine. Nobody's really that dumb to operate when the tailgate is down right?
I left mine. I know better, but some random "friend" who likes to touch buttons might not. :P
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

92 Wrangler Islander 4.0/32RH/231 D30/D35 RHD

Topic author
edognight
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:32 pm

Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by edognight »

OK, getting a little frustrated with the rear tailgate. I tried this and it did not work for me...

http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4285

the two relay solution is about ten posts down, a hand drawn wiring diagram, and I have it hooked up exactly like it shows using the hot wire already in the tailgate...I did get the motor to budge just a little while using the front switch, so I am going to re-do some of the crimping, and re run larger wires, but it still doesnt work. I can get the relays to pop with the front switch, but the motor does NOT run, grrrr!!!!

I am going to run a 12 gague from the battery, and use 10 gague from the relay to the motor, but this sucks.

is it possible the front switch isn't grounding the system? any help appreciated...
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dodgerammit
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Location: Middle TN

Re: Another rear window glass question...

Post by dodgerammit »

Your motor moved with the switch?

Check for binding in the glass channel or around the scissors.

Did you try the direct motor to battery trick I posted? This will at least rule out a motor/binding issue 100%.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

92 Wrangler Islander 4.0/32RH/231 D30/D35 RHD
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