HEI installation assistance

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jkcondrey
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Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:42 am

HEI installation assistance

Post by jkcondrey »

Hello all. Long read ahead, First off, I am not great at wiring. Now with that said, most of the wiring under my hood is crispy or missing anyways. I have a 78 wagoneer, 360 auto. I bought it with trouble running. It would run, but with a jump box only and someone had installed a push button start. I orginally tried to patch up the wiring and got it back to "stock". However, everytime I tried to crank it the starter would hang up and id have to pull the battery cable to stop it. Continued to have issues getting it run. I am in the process of installing an HEI distributer to eliminate the chaffed and crispy ignition wiring. I have disconnected the ignition module box, installed the new distributor, and am trying to figure out what else can go or is needed to keep everything else working. As far as getting 12v to the new HEI, I was going to use one of the wires that went to the old ignition box, there is a blue and a red, and they match the wiring diagram. I am assuming those would be getting full 12v at crank and running so that would be good, but wasn't sure which one to tap into. My biggest issue is the alternator, battery wiring. Those areas were extra crisp, with old patches and splices. Can anyone give some guidance on the wiring needed to keep that area running correctly. The alt has a two wire pigtail coming off of it, with a broken nichrome splice and a resistor wire(brown) going off to the firewall connector. There is also the thicker yellow that I believe runs back into the dash to the ammeter gauge. If I read the diagram correctly, that needs to stay as there are several splices downstream that feed of that wire. It doesn't seem to be in too bad shape. Also, the carb solenoid wiring is pretty bad, with splices and cracks. How important is that solenoid? Id really like to have the engine wiring at its base level for reliability, that whys I went with the HEI to remove some possible shorts etc that were causing start and run issues. I found one site that sells the engine harness new, for $250, but thought at half price this would be a better option. Thanks for any help you may be able to give.
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Stuka
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Re: HEI installation assistance

Post by Stuka »

I used the large red power feed going to the duraspark box. This is always 12V, and it switched for run/start. I think it may also have a white stripe on it.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

Topic author
jkcondrey
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Re: HEI installation assistance

Post by jkcondrey »

Sounds good on the red/white wire. I was debating which to use. Thank you.
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Holland Waggy
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Re: HEI installation assistance

Post by Holland Waggy »

.. be sure to measure if the red/white delivers 12V during cranking. Which wasn't the case with my '78, it dropped to 9V. I took an extra wire from the starter relay an put in an extra relay that switches between cranking and normal operation. May sound like overkill, but no problems since then..
Gilbert Doggen

1978 Wagoneer, AMC360, TH400, Quadratrac, HEI Ignition, Headlight LED conversion,

Topic author
jkcondrey
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Re: HEI installation assistance

Post by jkcondrey »

I appreciate the help. I loathe wiring. I got the new distributor installed. I have removed the old resistor wires and roughly got it wire in to what I believe will work. I took the Haynes manual and matched up what I had. I then marked out on the diagram the stuff that should be able to be removed. I then pulled all that stuff out and made sure what was left looked like the diagram lol. I left the starter unhooked for the moment. I had an issue with it before, so I want to make sure everything else works correct. Ill check that voltage tonight, as that is what I have it wired too at the moment. I should have more time to finish and get it cranked tonight.

rocklaurence
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Re: HEI installation assistance

Post by rocklaurence »

Stuka wrote:I used the large red power feed going to the duraspark box. This is always 12V, and it switched for run/start. I think it may also have a white stripe on it.
Thats how I wired HEI into my two '80s J-thrucks.

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jkcondrey
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Re: HEI installation assistance

Post by jkcondrey »

So, no go. I have to be missing something in the ignition circuit. Let me run through the big things done. I have a new ignition switch, new starter, new solenoid, new hei distributor, new one wire alternator. I believe I am missing a wire for ignition, but am not sure. I have the olejeep diagram and the Haynes manual diagram. Currently I have an ammeter wire(heavy yellow), one ignition wire(red heavy), a light blue(lighter gauge, I believe the neutral safety switch wire), a heavy gauge wire for alternator from main post up to battery for one wire charge. None of those are now hooked up anyplace in engine bay. The battery positive is connected to the left large post on the remote solenoid. The starter power lead comes off the right large post of the solenoid. Negative battery goes down to the engine mount bolt with a pigtail negative to body panel.
I have the distributor hooked up to the red/white wire that used to go to the old ignition box in order to get its 12v.

I tried various ways of hooking up the mentioned wires in order to try and get the "on" and "start" power, but only once got the "on" to work and I know that was wired wrong(went straight off battery). So I am at a loss over how to wire it up. If anyone has any other ideas, Id appreciate it. I am wondering if I have issues in the fuse box, though I pulled all that and the wiring out and checked all for cuts, nicks anything that looked weird.

With the wires that I have available, how should they be hooked up to the solenoid? To help me out, I look at the solenoid as having the lower large posts and the upper small posts. The only obvious thing with this would be the light blue, which has a post mount plug for the upper post. That's all I know lol. I hate wiring.

Topic author
jkcondrey
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Re: HEI installation assistance

Post by jkcondrey »

Ok some progress. After debating diagrams at work today I settled on one and tried. So I have it cranking, but it cranks at the “on” position versus the full forward “start” position. And for a first, it does not hang up when it cranks. I have the batt and starter power off the opposit big posts on solenoid. I have the ammeter wire and one ignition wire off the large post with the battery wire. On the small posts up top, I have what I believe is the other ignition wire that was missing on the top left above the batt post, with the light blue neutral switch on the right side above the starter post.
Any thoughts on what to swap or check to get it cranking on start and not the “on” position?
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Holland Waggy
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Re: HEI installation assistance

Post by Holland Waggy »

Well, as for cranking in ON position; sounds like the LT BLUE from the starter solenoid gets 12 V when the ignition lock is ON. So that's wired incorrectly. Please check and rewire. Now I'm not known with the one wire alternators, mine's still original but you could wire the HEI to the RED/WHITE from the Duraspark and splice off to the left small terminal on the starter solenoid. Than you have kinda the old situation back, except the resistance wire and coil. If it's wired like this you will get 12V direct from the starter solenoid when cranking and 12V from the Duraspark feed line during running
Gilbert Doggen

1978 Wagoneer, AMC360, TH400, Quadratrac, HEI Ignition, Headlight LED conversion,

Topic author
jkcondrey
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Re: HEI installation assistance

Post by jkcondrey »

Well I have the ignition wires working correct now, had to switch the two on top of the solenoid. I do have 12v going to the new distributor. While cranking it does drop to 10-11 volts, not sure if that is just a normal thing or if that's too much of a drop. It still will not fire though, so I'm going to check for getting fuel up to carb now. I don't believe its getting anything up. Slow progress with only a few 15 mintues a day to work on it .
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Stuka
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Re: HEI installation assistance

Post by Stuka »

jkcondrey wrote:Well I have the ignition wires working correct now, had to switch the two on top of the solenoid. I do have 12v going to the new distributor. While cranking it does drop to 10-11 volts, not sure if that is just a normal thing or if that's too much of a drop. It still will not fire though, so I'm going to check for getting fuel up to carb now. I don't believe its getting anything up. Slow progress with only a few 15 mintues a day to work on it .
That kind of drop is normal. The starter is drawing a lot of current.

Make sure you don't have the distributer 180 degrees out.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

will e
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Re: HEI installation assistance

Post by will e »

Is it 'kind of trying' to start or just cranking and nothing?

You can shoot a bit of starting fluid into the carb, put the air cleaner back on (in case of back fire) and try starting. If it runs for a few moments you know you have a fuel issue.
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge

Topic author
jkcondrey
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Re: HEI installation assistance

Post by jkcondrey »

I did spray some "flammable" carb cleaner into it and it "popped" once lol, but did not really start. I pulled the fuel line off the pump, below the distributor and there was no fuel in the line, so I assume the carb is empty. I think ill get that fuel filter today and maybe pull the carb off and clean as best I can and then put the line into a bottle and crank to see if any fuel comes up.

will e
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Re: HEI installation assistance

Post by will e »

No! Don't mess with the carb until you get it at least running as well as it was before you started with the HEI install.
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge

Topic author
jkcondrey
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Re: HEI installation assistance

Post by jkcondrey »

OK, will do that. Ill start with the fuel filter and try to get the bowl filled first. I really feel the distributor should be in right position, as I pulled the 1 plug and rotated with a socket until I got some compression on my finger and piston topped out. I lined up the slot in the bottom of distributor and it slid right into place. I made sure the vacuum port was in the same position as close as possible as well. So if I was 180 off, I would just have to pull it back out, get it to tdc again and then put the distr back in correct?
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Stuka
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Re: HEI installation assistance

Post by Stuka »

If its been sitting for a while, it can take a lot of cranking to get fuel up to the engine. Get it running off some starting fluid first, and see if fuel pumps up. My truck often sits for quite a while, and I always have to use starting fluid, because I don't like cranking the engine over for 20 seconds.

For the distributer, yes. Get it to TDC, and see where the rotor is pointed. It should be about 15 or so degrees before the #1 plug wire. To see if its 180 out, pull the plug on #1 and put your thumb over the plug hole, and have somebody bump the engine to get it to TDC (start below TDC). The compression should push your thumb back. If it doesn't, then you were on the exhaust stroke.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ
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