Engine Recommendations for my '65 Gladiator

[flingwing1969]

That actually will not work for you. That takes the standard GM pattern and mates it to an AMC. Unless you have some real creative voodoo going on you have the round pattern "nailhead" case that was made about 2" shorter and uses adapter rings to mate to various engines.
You TH400 should look like my B350 version.

Yup - that's what I have too. I figure I'll just pick up an AMC TH400 w/o Quadratrac and mate it to the AMC 360, assuming that is the way I decide to go. Thanks for thinking of me.

[Tad]

Seems the simple way.
I just wish I could find the AMC ring.

BTW: Thank you for keeping MikeD's rig running. His write ups on his previous rig (The FireTruck) helped my sort through many issues I had with my rig 14-15 years ago when I got it.
I hope you have as much fun as I did sorting through the strange world of pre-'74 rigs, they are awesome.

[flingwing1969]

Seems the simple way.
I just wish I could find the AMC ring.

BTW: Thank you for keeping MikeD's rig running. His write ups on his previous rig (The FireTruck) helped my sort through many issues I had with my rig 14-15 years ago when I got it.
I hope you have as much fun as I did sorting through the strange world of pre-'74 rigs, they are awesome.

It is my great pleasure. I which he still had the behind the seat fuel tank though - I'd like the extra go juice. He did a really nice job with Speedy - spent lots of cash on it - and The Firetruck lives on in this '65 in so many ways - pity to lose the engine though.

I've got copies of all of MikeD's posts and threads on Speedy - as well as a blog he started on the project. http://www.tworock.com/mjd/jeep/maximus.html

[flingwing1969]

Okay, FrankenWag sold the engine I've been trying to buy. Soooo, back to looking for another engine. Maybe I'll here about the 70k 350 complete and drop that one in. Easy swap.

[Loren Jones]

I have a 360/727/NP229 I'll sell really cheap.

[flingwing1969]

I have a 360/727/NP229 I'll sell really cheap.

Where are you? Tell me about it? PM if you like. Thanks.

[Tatsadasayago]

Pssst: The 229 is drivers side drop.

[flingwing1969]

Pssst: The 229 is drivers side drop.

Yup, I remember. Thanks. Don't intend to use the Tranny or Transfer, just the engine, should I do an AMC 360. Thanks.

What do you, or anyone out there for that matter, think of a Buick 455 swap in? Pretty similar size and the same bolt pattern as the Buick 350 with a front dist - and 350 hp (not SAE net) and 510 lb·ft of torque at 2800. The difference between the "small block" and the "big block" are not significant barely negligible. Here are the details on the measurements:

Buick V8 Engine Measurements (from Peterson’s Engine swapping no.4)
350 455
fan pulley to back of valve cover 29" 29"
fan pulley to rear of oil pan 30.5" 30"
Overall width w/o exhaust manifolds 23" 23"
Overall width with stock exhaust manifolds 28.5" 28"
top of valve cover to bottom of pan 21.5" 22"
top of carb to bottom of pan 25.5" 27"
top of stock air filter to bottom of pan 28.5" 30"
oil pan sump rear center
Starter right right

[Tatsadasayago]

A friend and I swapped in a Poncho 455 for his J-truck after the Buick 350 expired.
I recall a few issues that arose:
Fuel pump fittings and location were different.
Passenger side clearance to the heater box was very tight.
Oil pan clearance to front axle housing required a different pan.
Power steering pump bracket needed to be altered to move it closer to the engine. (May have been the air compressor...I forget)
Brake booster to valve cover clearance issue.
Fan spacer had to be cut down in length to keep the fan out of the radiator.
I recall something about the pilot bushing/crankshaft hub, but cannot remember the details.
I am sure there were more problems we ran into but were easily solved with ingenuity and a field full of donor vehicles.

[flingwing1969]

A friend and I swapped in a Poncho 455 for his J-truck after the Buick 350 expired.
I recall a few issues that arose:
Fuel pump fittings and location were different.
Passenger side clearance to the heater box was very tight.
Oil pan clearance to front axle housing required a different pan.
Power steering pump bracket needed to be altered to move it closer to the engine. (May have been the air compressor...I forget)
Brake booster to valve cover clearance issue.
Fan spacer had to be cut down in length to keep the fan out of the radiator.
I recall something about the pilot bushing/crankshaft hub, but cannot remember the details.
I am sure there were more problems we ran into but were easily solved with ingenuity and a field full of donor vehicles.

Perfect Tat - just what I need. Thanks.
1.I have an electric fuel pump so eliminate that issue.
2. Tight to the heater box but it fit? Right?
3. I saw some remarks about installing a different oil pan on a Commando Site - The 455 has a center hump oil pan and a 350 has a rear hump oil pan. Be sure that the oil pan will clear the front pumpkin under compression is what was said. I remember an option for changing the pan with another (different site) but I can't recall what it was right now.
4. Do you recall how the PS pump had to be revised?
5. Did he have to revise the PS booster mount? How?
6. I have an efan so I'll pull the engine driven fan anyway - and gain maybe 10/12 mpg, eh? Cooling is certainly to be watched though, eh?

If you can recall anything else, I'm all ears - so to speak.

The Buick 350 is still the easiest swap and is my #1 choice, but 500+ lb-ft torque is tempting.

[Tatsadasayago]

As long ago that it was, I recall having to apply a torch and ball-peen hammer to the metal heater box so the valve cover, lower part of the head and manifold cleared. I ruined a heater core in the process so I would recommend removing it to do the work.
The donor 455 was out of a 70s Trans Am and a mid 70s Bonnevile wagon donated the rear sump oil pan.
I believe we had to adjust the motor mounts and move the engine toward the passenger side for the valve cover to clear the brake booster, which led to the heater box issue. We agreed that the box would suffer so we didn't have to mess with the booster.
It was the A/C compressor that was problematic; the battery and tray were in the way, so we made a bracket and adjuster from plate stock and moved it to the A.I.R. pump location. If you don't plan on having A/C then this won't be an issue.

Keep in mind, this was 25 years ago or more so I may have forgotten a thing or two in the interim.

Good luck with your project!

Jim

[Cheap Hobby]

Of course if you go to hydro boost then you will have room and not have to shift engine over. Of course then you will have to go through the breaks so they will work properly, and up grade the ps pump.
Remember the old days when you could pull the gas cap and run or put on an electric fuel pump with a toggle switch no relay or fuse. Fill the toggle count to 3 and hit the key and down the road you went no worries

[flingwing1969]

Of course if you go to hydro boost then you will have room and not have to shift engine over. Of course then you will have to go through the breaks so they will work properly, and up grade the ps pump.
Remember the old days when you could pull the gas cap and run or put on an electric fuel pump with a toggle switch no relay or fuse. Fill the toggle count to 3 and hit the key and down the road you went no worries

Ah yes. I had a '50 five window Chevy 3100 deluxe (I was second owner). Out for a drive and the fuel pump went out. I flled a 1 gallon gas can, opened the hood, roped the can under that massive hood, stuck a tube into the can, attached it to the carb, closed the hood and drove home. Try that with a JK.

[flingwing1969]

As long ago that it was, I recall having to apply a torch and ball-peen hammer to the metal heater box so the valve cover, lower part of the head and manifold cleared. I ruined a heater core in the process so I would recommend removing it to do the work.
The donor 455 was out of a 70s Trans Am and a mid 70s Bonnevile wagon donated the rear sump oil pan.
I believe we had to adjust the motor mounts and move the engine toward the passenger side for the valve cover to clear the brake booster, which led to the heater box issue. We agreed that the box would suffer so we didn't have to mess with the booster.
It was the A/C compressor that was problematic; the battery and tray were in the way, so we made a bracket and adjuster from plate stock and moved it to the A.I.R. pump location. If you don't plan on having A/C then this won't be an issue.

Keep in mind, this was 25 years ago or more so I may have forgotten a thing or two in the interim.

Good luck with your project!

Jim

Thanks Jim. without the fan, I can move the engine a bit forward too, maybe an inch or two at least and that might give me clearance from the booster and the heater box? I'm told the 455 is only about 2 inches longer than the 350 and the rest of the dimensions are comparable from what I see. The A 455s are going for roughly twice what I can get a 350 for but the stories I hear is they are torque monsters - just what I need/want. This all helps me make decisions.

[flingwing1969]

Of course if you go to hydro boost then you will have room and not have to shift engine over. Of course then you will have to go through the breaks so they will work properly, and up grade the ps pump.
Remember the old days when you could pull the gas cap and run or put on an electric fuel pump with a toggle switch no relay or fuse. Fill the toggle count to 3 and hit the key and down the road you went no worries

I've looked at the hydro boost before for my CJ. I like the idea but the mod is not without its issues - none of them are. You do A, then B pops up, solve B and you get C, D, E and of course F. Owning elderly iron with obsolete systems, and trying to advance them a decade or so give me great respect for the automotive engineers who do this sort of thing for a living.

[flingwing1969]

Okay, I have a line on a Pontiac '70s 350 engine complete. The existing TH400 should bolt right up to that engine, the dist is in the back so it might be a bit in the way. This one is built and has a tested 400+ HP and 500 lb torque so it might just be adequate for my Glad? Issues?

[Herk]

4500+ HP should be plenty!

[flingwing1969]

4500+ HP should be plenty!

Getting close anyway - damn fingers.

[lkmarsh]

My 73 has the 360-TH400-D20. Bought the jeep for parts, non-runner, sat for years. I'll try turning it over today.
Has the radiator, might have a shroud too. PM if interested.

[carnuck]

I have the AMC ring for the nailhead trans but it came with a newer flexplate. The crank adapter is going to the flywheel balancer guy out here.