Canton AMC Oil Pan, anyone running it?

[peterlombardi]

Hey there,

Just checking to see if anyone is using the Canton AMC oil pan on their FJS? I have an '86 that I'm swapping in a 401 (after I build the block I just picked up this weekend) and I'm hoping to upgrade the oil capacity in it.

Seems snug under there, thanks!

[REDONE]

AMC v-8s were made to run with 6qts of oil. It was marketing, not engineering that specified 4 1/2 qts. Story goes that the PR team though using more oil than the competition (350SBC, 360SBF) would cost sales.

A member here verified that with the stock pan laying on the ground he could pour 5qts in it and it still wasn't up to the internal baffle, so no risk of windage. Six is no problem with filter and galleries filled up.

Here's what's left of that horse after the beating:
http://theamcforum.com/forum/oil-and-oi ... il+filters

Granted, 6 quarts isn't 9 quarts, but is that extra three quarts worth $550? As you find out all the little qwirks and tricks known by all the real smart people here (I'm a fake smart person, just really good at repeating what others know ) there's lots of debate and discussion about the AMCs oiling shortcomings, but total capacity hasn't ever been one of them!

Also, it's hard to say for sure, but with the "T" design it may interfere with the driveshaft. The picture of that oilpan on their website looks prohibitive to four wheel drive.

[peterlombardi]

Haha, I'm a huge fan of regurgitated info, usually means it's worth its weight. Why keep saying something stupid?

That's great info though man, thank you. I had no idea about the 6 quarts.

I was worried about the T design as well, I know the 30250 milodon pan is very linear.

Thanks!

[REDONE]

You bet! On the topic of oiling, there's two issues with AMC oiling.
1st is the external oil pump. Unlike the SBC that has the oil pump in the pan right next to the oil, after a rebuild or any other reason for all the oil to be drained from the system, you have to prime the oiling system or it can take too long to draw oil from the sump and build pressure, wiping cams and burning bearings. Not just oil changes, the oil pump stays full of oil when you do that, but if you pull the pump off for any reason, you'll have to reprime it.

2nd is often debated, but there is notoriously low pressure at the #7 lifters and rear most cam bearing and the rear main. In a stock engine it may be negligible. The problem got widely preached in racing circles where the rpms and engine load was well in excess of a daily driver. The fix is called the "oil line mod" and is pretty easy and straight forward with the intake off, but it's necessity is hotly debated. That'd be a good google search to see if it's right for you.

If you haven't heard of bulltear.com yet, they make AMC go fast parts, and if you really felt the need to add a qt to your oil capacity, look at their remote mount oil filter set up and an aux oil cooler!

[peterlombardi]

I'd read that about the pump, is the vaseline trick the way to go? or should I invest in the primer?

Ah yes, the oil line mod, that does seem to be heavily debated on all the AMC and Jeep boards. I think I'm going to go for it though. I've decided to put together my own kit using Aeroquip teflon hose and fittings with their high pressure steel adapter fittings to thread into the block. Most likely I'll get the machinist to do it, as I don't trust my tapping skills, haha. Figuring it's a why not type of mod.

I have head of them, and I've been stalking their site haha. I actually picked up their Stage 1 oil pump kit with the HRC option as well. I like a lot of their products and I hope to use a few of them. That is a good thought on the oil filter setup, I'll have to think about that.

Thanks again!

[REDONE]

I go the Vaseline route but I don't use Vaseline, I use Lubriplate #105. First, because I'd just feel weird walking into walgreens dirty and greasy to buy nothing but one tub of Vaseline. Second, #105 is $10 for 10oz. Vaseline is about $4 for less than 2oz, AND #105 is MEANT to be put in engines, so it's what I use.

I did the oil line mod on my 401 (it's on a stand waiting for aluminum heads) and I just used 3/8" steel fuel line and steel 45* flare to pipe adapters. It's cheap, common, can handle the pressure, handle the heat, and won't break down in all that oil, ever. If I did it again I'd use 37* flare fittings, but I had a 45* flare tool at the time so it's what I did.

sorry I'm short with the pictures. I had hundreds of pics on Photobucket but I threw a tantrum the day they started mixing advertisements in with my hundreds of pictures. They tricked me into clicking on them wondering when I took a picture of a fat guy eating lays potato chips in a livingroom I don't recognise. I deleted the account thinking all the pics were backed up on my desktop, and I was wrong. I'm slowly rebuilding a reference picture library.

[Cheap Hobby]

Just remember to do a another trip to the cleaning tank to get all the bits out after the drill and tap. Has 2 customers loose engines after carefully following the factory high performance build book. One was too cheap to do it and the other thought is vacuum cleaned up all the bits.

[peterlombardi]

Haha, ok, I'll look into getting some #105, I was a little reticent about picking up a whole tub of it as well. I especially like the price difference!

I'm actually debating about aluminum heads myself, seems like a deal if you can find a good used set. I think I'm going to go the Swagelok 316 route, this post here by baklys (on the AMC Forum) has me smitten!
http://theamcforum.com/forum/best-lifte ... tml#497040

Oh no, hahaha, yeah, I could see how that might dissuade you from Photobucket. I'm lucky in that I can host on my own server.

Haha, thanks Cheap! I definitely will, I'd rather spend a little money than lose a lot!

[REDONE]

What sets the lubriplate apart from the same looking stuff everyone else makes (like CRC and Lok-tite) is that #105 is petroleum based when everyone else uses a lithium base. I'm not a chemicalologist, but I think it might matter when dispersing in the motor oil.

I love Swagelok and use their 316 over all competitors at work! The competition (Yor-Lok and A-lok) are rated at half the pressure for the same size fittings in the same material. It helps that Swagelok has a warehouse 6 miles from my factory while Yor-Lok comes from McMaster and A-lok comes from Parker. BUT, at work I deal with ridiculous standards for contamination, pressure and heat (super high tech ceramics), Swag-lok is overkill for the inside of an engine but even then, it's pretty swank so go for it!

[peterlombardi]

Haha, makes sense petroleum dispersing in petroleum

Ended up picking up some Swagelok 1/2" x 3/8" npt fittings last night on ebay for less than 20 bucks, any recommendations on tubing? Going to have to pick-up a bender, deburring tool, gap inspector, and a new pipe cutter (mine is way too dull).

[REDONE]

Swagelok recommends using tube made of the same material as the fittings, but the double ferrule will seal any tube of the correct size. If you stick with stainless don't worry about picking up a rolling tube cutter, just hack it with a cut-off wheel and deburr with a file or dremel. The best thing about double ferrule tube fittings is that the end doesn't need to be perfect since the seal happens at the lead ferrule.

Oh yeah, again I'm sorry for my lack of pics but I bent my tube in the shape of a 7 and it gave me the wiggle room to line up with the rear fitting nicely. Also, the oil line mod ruled out the valley pan style intake gasket. You can cut it to clear the rear fitting but it defeats the purpose of using the valley pan. Edelbrock gaskets are the same price, seal better, are easier to install, but you have to order them from summit or jegs. Parts stores only stock the valley pan, last I checked.

[peterlombardi]

Thanks again Red, definitely planning on stainless tubing, any recommendations of wall thickness? Great to know about the swagelok!

I picked up one of these for peace of mind, http://www.ebay.com/itm/271918861398

Oh rad, I didn't know that Edelbrock made a gasket that replaced the valley pan gasket. I'll definitely go that route then, I'm sold on their Performer RPM heads, going to probably go with a Lunati Voodoo 262/268 cam kit as well (10100702LK). Seems like a fun cam

Thanks again!

[REDONE]

I'd probably go with .062 in 304 just because it'd be least likely to kink.

[peterlombardi]

Thanks! I'll make a post up about the build when I get a bit further along.

[j10jim]

Use the Milodon pan. I have had mine for years. It fits great!

[peterlombardi]

Thanks Jim I think that's what I'm going to end up doing, I wonder how it'll fit if I decided to use Thorley headers though, might just have to get a Y pipe fabbed up.

[j10jim]

Peter, it should be OK. I will snap a picture tomorrow of the pan.

[peterlombardi]

Thanks Jim! I'm curious about the two different Y-pipes that BJ's sells, they say that the 1972-79 version won't work with lifts, and the I'm not sure how the 1980-91 version routes in comparison to the stock pipe (which requires the indentation in the oil pan).

[letank]

very educational



The top one is on the 74 and the 85 has one of the bottom versions, need to crawl under to see the notches... But I cannot really eyeball a major size difference... having spent quality time looking at those oil pans.

But at 6 q I am afraid that the oil, depending if the hill that I am climbing or descending....
1) will collect up front of rear
2) and start foaming

any insights?

As most of us are burning or dripping, keeping it near the 5q mark seems to be reasonnable... As a note the german v8 pf the 80's are using 8q...

[Nikkormat]

I run 8 quarts in the stock 74 pan with the bulltear external filter hung from the engine. No foaming, crank whipping, or any other issues even on very steep ascents and descents. It'd be real hard to run the pan dry too!

I didn't really trust the experiment done on AMC forums, I needed to know that it wasn't going to be above the baffle. So I set it up on the kitchen counter and added water until I was a sixteenth under the baffle of the pan. Pouring that into a measuring cup showed just over six quarts. So on first fire up I filled it to six quarts, put a quart in the filter, and ran the engine. With all of the break in lube, moly break in grease, and other crap in the oil it read just barely over full. I changed the oil, used the same procedure, and it read perfectly on the full line with the oil galleries full from the break in run. The stock fill line indicates five quarts in the pan, so from there I added another quart bringing my grand total to 8 quarts. Keep in mind that my aftermarket filter system (filter, adaptor, fittings, about 8 inches of 1/2" ID copper tubing) holds at least a quart and a half.

If I had to do it all again I would also plumb in a low flow restriction cooler for at least another quart and to keep the oil from heat soaking, and an acusump for additional capacity, pre lubeing, and reserve oil pressure.

The acusump (https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/produ ... Ap7-8P8HAQ) and plumbing should add around 4 quarts and a cooler should add another two. Certainly, 14 quarts would be plenty overkill.