What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Modified FSJ Tech Area
User avatar

dodgerammit
Posts: 1434
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:20 pm
Location: Middle TN

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by dodgerammit »

When I swapped out the CAD axle housing on my one ton 85 Dodge for an earlier non cad design, I had to swap the spindles from the 8 lug setup to accommodate the larger brake system. The 5 lug spindles wouldn't allow the calipers to clear the larger rotors. This also meant that the axle gained about 3" width as well as has been stated. Being in redneckville, I often caught flak for not putting a 60 under it. My personal opinion is 60s aren't needed till you surpass 35 or 36 " tire diameters or drop a very heavy engine (Cummins) in the vehicle. The king pins are a nice form of insurance for that kind of weight. As has also been stated, like Chevy, Dodge also rated their Danas at 3500# or 4500#. This would be found on the gvwr sticker on the door.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

92 Wrangler Islander 4.0/32RH/231 D30/D35 RHD

Topic author
Adventure_Wagon88
Posts: 441
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:00 pm
Location: Leesport, PA
Contact:

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by Adventure_Wagon88 »

Well dodgerammit, I'm going to be running 37" tires and my engine (Isuzu 4BD1T) weighs 850 fully dressed and slippery. So we will see how temporary the D44 ends up being

Topic author
Adventure_Wagon88
Posts: 441
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:00 pm
Location: Leesport, PA
Contact:

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by Adventure_Wagon88 »

Found a guy locally who has J20 D44 8 Lug parts--everything I need to swap! Selling to me very reasonably priced too

Topic author
Adventure_Wagon88
Posts: 441
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:00 pm
Location: Leesport, PA
Contact:

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by Adventure_Wagon88 »

I came across this hunk at the yard today. Would this have what I need? I didn't have the tools to pull something this big, but I can go back tomorrow with my half-inch socket, 18 V impact and large wrenches. Someone grabbed the locking hubs, but I don't need those anyway. Image

Image

Image
User avatar

Stuka
Site Admin
Posts: 11789
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 5:53 pm
Location: CA
Contact:

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by Stuka »

Those should work for you.

However, with a quick glance at the thread here, I don't see where you state what front axle you are using? With a 67" 14FF in back, you certainly do not want to use a narrow track D44 up front. Did you already get a Ford D44 up front? Or at minimum a WT Cherokee/J10 front axle? (Which would still be narrower than the rear axle, but better at least).
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

will e
Posts: 5096
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:21 am

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by will e »

By my estimate you will need 4 additional lug nuts. :)
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge

Topic author
Adventure_Wagon88
Posts: 441
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:00 pm
Location: Leesport, PA
Contact:

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by Adventure_Wagon88 »

Stuka, my front is just the stock 88 D44 narrow track. I haven't measured it. I guess I should just swap a whole Ford D44 up there. At which point i start thinking I may as well just get a 90's Ford D60 and build a 3 link. Certainly draws out my project but that's where I'll want to be eventually anyway.
User avatar

Stuka
Site Admin
Posts: 11789
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 5:53 pm
Location: CA
Contact:

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by Stuka »

Well, what size tires are you wanting to go with? Unless you are going with 37's or larger, a D44 will be fine. Although I know the added weight of the diesel is not ideal for a D44, but it can live for quite a while.

BTW: a stock narrow track front is roughly 59.5" wide (rear is 57.5" wide).
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

Topic author
Adventure_Wagon88
Posts: 441
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:00 pm
Location: Leesport, PA
Contact:

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by Adventure_Wagon88 »

Yeah I will be running either 37's or 40's so sounds like I better just go straight for the D60.

Topic author
Adventure_Wagon88
Posts: 441
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:00 pm
Location: Leesport, PA
Contact:

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by Adventure_Wagon88 »

So a 78/79 Ford D44 HD is bolt in from what I understand, correct? I have seen those locally for $5-700. There are 2 78/79 Sno Fighter axles locally as well at $1200 a pop. Or a plethora of 80's/90's F250 Ford D60's for right around $500. I lean towards the 80's/90's option and building a 3-link (utilizing a Ruff Stuff kit most likely) but are there any major differences in there that I need to look out for? I think I'd be staying away from the Superduty axles because of the cast in control arm mounts but I really don't know of all the differences between the various D60s Fords came with.
User avatar

Stuka
Site Admin
Posts: 11789
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 5:53 pm
Location: CA
Contact:

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by Stuka »

The 79 D60 was the last one to have king pins (for ford anyway). When the solid axle came back in 89 or whatever it was a ball joint axle. The spring mounts are wider which requires partially out boarding the springs, but if going with coils, thats not an issue for you.

Super duty axles are metric lug patterns BTW, so you don't want those if you want matching wheels.

Pirate has a lot of info on various year D60's.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

cmaje72
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:33 am
Location: Western NY

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by cmaje72 »

There were definitely kingpin ford d60's after 79. I don't know the years off the top of my head but I have sold a couple of them. 78/79 D60's have the closest spring perches for our rigs. They are also what everyone is looking for because they fit great in little jeeps too.
79 Cherokee 5.3/4l65E/NP241C
79 CJ7

Topic author
Adventure_Wagon88
Posts: 441
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:00 pm
Location: Leesport, PA
Contact:

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by Adventure_Wagon88 »

Seems the kingpin option in later models is hit or miss, I've definitely seen them too but seems most are ball joint. I'm not dead set on having to have a kingpin axle, I would only really want the 78/79 axle for simplicity of bolt in. It is bolt in, correct?

Stuka when you say "partially outboarding" it doesn't sound so bad haha. If I know what I want the end result to be I don't want to do a bunch of work for something that I know will just be temporary, but if getting say an 89 D60 for $500 and essentially just moving my front spring hangers out 2" on either side (properly gusseting and using new hangers of course) not having to completely re-think a leaf spring setup only to end up building a 3 link a little further down the road. Let's say I do the outboarding to get a newer D60 under there, then get it set up with a 1 ton steering setup. Is there any reason I would have to re-engineer the steering for a 3 link?

I knew there was another reason I didn't want the Super duty axle, definitely want matching wheels. I'll check out Pirate.
User avatar

Stuka
Site Admin
Posts: 11789
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 5:53 pm
Location: CA
Contact:

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by Stuka »

The front spring perches of the 78/79 line up with ours (except for gladiators).

The later axles have spring perches that are 2" or so wider. So yeah, its just a matter of moving the spring perches out some. A few FSJ'ers have done it through the years as the axles are a lot cheaper.

Steering should be able to stay the same if you are going cross over.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

Topic author
Adventure_Wagon88
Posts: 441
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:00 pm
Location: Leesport, PA
Contact:

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by Adventure_Wagon88 »

Thanks for that! I will narrow the search to a later model D60 and probably just move the springs out to get it under there for starters. Then build the axle up internally how I want it and plan for a 3 link eventually. Can coil overs up front be a decent enough match with leaf springs rear or is that going to be akin to pimping out a horse and buggy?
User avatar

Stuka
Site Admin
Posts: 11789
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 5:53 pm
Location: CA
Contact:

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by Stuka »

Plenty of guys that run leaves in back and coil overs up front. Most of your flex will be up front anyway as most of the weight is up there, so having it more flexy is good.

I suggest you read this regarding front coils (Coils start on page 7): http://fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4490

He did switch over to air shocks, which he says he prefers.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

cmaje72
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:33 am
Location: Western NY

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by cmaje72 »

Because I was curious I checked the d60 bible. Kingpin up to 1991.5 and ball joint after that.
79 Cherokee 5.3/4l65E/NP241C
79 CJ7
User avatar

Stuka
Site Admin
Posts: 11789
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 5:53 pm
Location: CA
Contact:

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by Stuka »

cmaje72 wrote:Because I was curious I checked the d60 bible. Kingpin up to 1991.5 and ball joint after that.
Good to know :)
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

Topic author
Adventure_Wagon88
Posts: 441
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:00 pm
Location: Leesport, PA
Contact:

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by Adventure_Wagon88 »

Thanks for all the info guys! Stuka I had read Kevin's thread on the Gladiator before and just refreshed myself. I forgot he was running leaf rear (inboard though, I don't wanna do that if I can get away with it) and his 4 link up front is beautiful. I'd love to go with the simplicity of ORI gas struts up front.

I found a 1986 D60 (kingpin) from a SRW F350 for $600. It's complete and not rusted like so much of the other plow truck junk around here that people still want a premium for. "It's just surface rust!" they tell me. Sorry but 1/8" deep pitting and 3 layers of scale makes me question the structural integrity of those...Anyway, this one seems good. I think I'm just gonna do the "slight outboard" of the front leafs for now, get my axle and steering all set up and get this hunk DRIVING. Then I'll fill up my piggy bank and do a linked front with coils or ORI struts as a "stage 2". I need to update my build thread on here!
User avatar

Stuka
Site Admin
Posts: 11789
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 5:53 pm
Location: CA
Contact:

Re: What's needed to swap to Dana 44 8 lug outers?

Post by Stuka »

That’s a great price. You can touch a D60 front here for that much.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ
Post Reply