Soa cucv

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BenD
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Soa cucv

Post by BenD »

Another soa, I know. To start off with, I built a 1985 m1008 cucv over the last few years and it’s great, but my father passed and I got his 1981 Jeep j10 360/t177/208 with Dana 44’s. So in memory of my father, and a tribute to the greatest truck ever that I literally grew up with, I am thinking of marrying the two together. I have a brother who done a soa with his 76 j20 with his original spring and the axle wrap and bump steer was so bad we switched it back and did a lift spring, now it’s good but ride is worse than it was. My cucv has the d60/14 and 4” lift spring in the front and shackle flip in the rear( it’s awesome) how much can be reused on the j10. I mean can I move the spring perch to reuse the front Chevy springs, the Chevy shackle flip, much more info, just outta room here
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Stuka
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Re: Soa cucv

Post by Stuka »

I am going to move this to Offroad Tech, as it isn't a build thread yet.

As for your question, the front axle bolts in, no perch moving at all. For steering, I would suggest going with cross over steering by adding a steering arm to the passenger side kingpin, and then connect the drag link to that from the pitman arm (It will need to be longer). This will prevent any bump steer.

The rear axle will need spring perches moved, and you can use/build a shack flip kit in back (BJ's offroad sells a kit).
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

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BenD
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Re: Soa cucv

Post by BenD »

Also on the D60 I have already done the crossover steering and on the cucv I used a 2wd PSC steering box that steers side to side instead of the 4wd version that steers front to back

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BenD
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Re: Soa cucv

Post by BenD »

Thanks, thought the fr axle would bolt up, the main reason for thinking of the spring perch was to use the wider 1ton Chevy springs. Also in changing the perches the front would become the pivot point and the shackle would be in the rear of the fr axle
Last edited by BenD on Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BenD
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Re: Soa cucv

Post by BenD »

Sorry guys, tried to load a couple pics but it says denied, file to large?
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Stuka
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Re: Soa cucv

Post by Stuka »

Yeah, for uploading to the site I have file size limitations. You can always host larger ones on imgur or something.

Your steering setup will work fine, but there won't be a need for the steering box. FSJ's have a far better stock steering box setup than GMs do.

I thought even the 1 tons had 2.5" wide front springs? But even if so, just going SOA with stock springs will get you about 6.5" of lift. A GM 4" lift spring will give you about 1-1.5" more than that.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

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BenD
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Re: Soa cucv

Post by BenD »

Yeah buddy, the cucv the axles are under now I got 37x12.5 maxxis creepy crawlers that I want under the j10. Ok just measured, the Chevy 1 ton spring is 2 1/2” the same as the j10, just the poly bushing sticks out 1/2” one both sides, the Chevy perch is 3 1/2”, the j10 perch is 2 1/2” w no real bushing sticking out the sides of the spring

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BenD
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Re: Soa cucv

Post by BenD »

Another issue I know about is the pass. side pumpkin, this isn’t a big deal. I’m thinking about switching to a sm465 I have that has 32 so output, still looking for a 6 bolt round pattern 205 passenger drop. And have to figure out how to attach the 465 to the amc 360

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BenD
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Re: Soa cucv

Post by BenD »

Any thoughts on switching to the more common pivot fr, shackle in the rear of the front axle springs compared to the factory style rear pivot, front shackle. Worth swap or is benifets negligible (small, I can’t spell)
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derf
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Re: Soa cucv

Post by derf »

Lots of people do a shackle reversal like that. There is no small amount of discussion on whether it's better or not. There are certainly several things you need to take into account to make it work right if you do choose to do it. Things like making sure you have enough driveshaft compression to handle an axle moving backwards during flexing. But once you have the plan laid out, it's really not that hard.

Now, whether or not it's a good idea I'll leave to others. I don't know enough about it to accurately speculate one way or the other. About the only thing I do know for sure is that the factory puts the shackles the way they do mostly for on road driving performance as most of the trucks they sell see a lot of street time and they need to handle well there.

Get your favorite snack and beverage, pull up your chair for a long time reading, type "shackle reversal" into your favorite search engine, and prepare to be entertained. I'd say that you're going to get a lot of people with passionate opinions backed up by little fact. But if you read enough, you should be able to pick apart fact from fiction.

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BenD
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Re: Soa cucv

Post by BenD »

Thanks for your post, sometimes it’s the trivial things that make Hugh pro’s/con’s in the end product

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BenD
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Re: Soa cucv

Post by BenD »

I guess I still don’t understand the problem of soa axle wrap. Is this mainly only a issue if you try to keep running the factory sua springs or what. Almost all other manufacturers ran a soa setup, so if switching to this don’t just changing to a spring designed for soa eliminate bent springs and wrap. Or is the front end weight that much different in a fsj, I have no idea really. I’ve heard ( lol, famous words of wisdom right) so many say you need a traction bar for soa, but if you change springs to a design specifically for soa I don’t know why it would be required. I get the steering issues, that’s a common thing on any chassis alteration.
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derf
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Re: Soa cucv

Post by derf »

Axle wrap happens all the time with factory spring over (and even spring under) setups. Just to different degrees. On a factory stock truck it's usually not bad enough to need a fix.

Any time you have lots of torque and a tire that doesn't want to turn easily, you get axle wrap. I believe it's more pronounced when you have softer springs (i.e. lower spring rate) Shorter gears (i.e. higher numbers) cause more rotational torque and that makes for more axle wrap. Bigger tires "push back" more and that contributes too.

All sorts of fixes are in the wild for this. Drag cars would use the style of traction bar that bolts to the bottom of the leaf spring and went forward with a bump stop on the end. Some Mopar muscle cars came with a pinion snubber from the factory. Several aftermarket lift kits for full size trucks come with traction bars that attach to the axle and then are on a shackle tied to the frame at the other end.

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BenD
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Re: Soa cucv

Post by BenD »

Yes, thank you for that. I do get the general reason for axle wrap and I didn’t imply that I knew anything about it. I was just saying that for some reason the soa Jeeps with stock springs seem to really spot light the issue.
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Re: Soa cucv

Post by Stuka »

BenD wrote:Yes, thank you for that. I do get the general reason for axle wrap and I didn’t imply that I knew anything about it. I was just saying that for some reason the soa Jeeps with stock springs seem to really spot light the issue.
Because the stock springs have arch on Jeeps since they are normally spring under, which give the axle more leverage when changed to spring over. Most factory SOA setups use reverse arched, or very flat springs. The reverse arch (like Gm and Ford used a lot) basically put the axle in line with the spring eyes, so axle wrap happens a lot less.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

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BenD
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Re: Soa cucv

Post by BenD »

Oh, didn’t think of that. Very good answer

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Re: Soa cucv

Post by rocklaurence »

BenD wrote:Any thoughts on switching to the more common pivot fr, shackle in the rear of the front axle springs compared to the factory style rear pivot, front shackle. Worth swap or is benifets negligible (small, I can’t spell)
This video explains it all ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLEPUAzc_pc&t=34s

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Re: Soa cucv

Post by fsj454 »

Yes . Bolts right in . But pinion angle must be determined and set during installation .
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