tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

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tara
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tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by tara »

Hi,

i have just finished to install a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 using red RTV and it leaks again !!! i m sure i m not doing it the right way, any recommandations ?

thanks

Tara
Jeep Wagoneer 1965 4dr 327

letank
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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by letank »

IIRC no RTV and cork, in fact on my latest project there is was cork gasket as I discovered when I redid the time chain/camshaft, only a bead of RTV which was a headache to slide the timing cover. No obnoxious leaks...

When I have done cork, I use permatex #2.

A little search yielded this result from the felpro site:

http://www.felpro-only.com/break_room_f ... hp?tid=367

or if linky no woky (it is a subaru... but same idea)

the clean surfaces you have are key here, make sure the oil pan is nice and flat as well. You should not need to use any RTV anywhere between the gasket and the engine block unless where the 2 case halves meet there is a step.

You may want to use some blue thread locker on the bolt threads, not RTV.

Install it to the factory specs of 3.6 ft. lbs. Since many torque wrenches do not go that low accurately, you may want to use a inch pound wrench set to 43 in. lbs.

Do not use RTV, Vaseline or anything else on the gasket, it will cause the gasket to slip, extrude or split during the torque up.

Thanks for choosing Fel-Pro!

otherwise a good summary about cork gasket -they do not age well, they dry while being stored-

https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/mus/2 ... 99759.html

Cork: Pure cork is the inner bark of the Mediterranean live oak tree. For gaskets, granules of this cork are held together with binders that are either phenolic resins or latex. It is the binder that gives cork gaskets certain undesirable characteristics.

Gaskets made of cork have several disadvantages. The shelf life of cork gaskets is relatively short, since they lose moisture, shrink and become brittle. They also have a tendency to "wick." This is caused by capillary action pulling oil through the voids between the cork granules.

For this reason, many hobbyists who see dirt and oil film on the outside of an oil pan or valve cover with a cork gasket believe that it is leaking, and consequently over-tighten the hold-down bolts. This will not stop the natural wicking process that is responsible for the dirt accumulation. It only distorts the sheetmetal of the part and creates a leak.

Automotive cork gaskets do offer some advantages over other materials. They are easily installed on wet or dry surfaces, due to their high coefficient of friction. The cork product also has excellent compressibility and possesses good torque retention.

Cork is used in applications where oil is to be contained, where bolt loading is low, and where there are no pressure and temperature extremes.

Bon courage
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)
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tara
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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by tara »

Hi my friend,

there are only cork gasket for my engines and there are two parts gaskets :

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Oil-Pan ... 3400a6bfea

do you use this permatex ? :

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Permatex-2-For ... rk:21:pf:0

some people suggest to use only black rtv permatex with cork gaskets, what do you think ?

do you put rtv on both sides ? do you alow to dry ovenight before torquing to specs ?

many questions, but it seems not so easy to do it the right way ....


letank wrote:IIRC no RTV and cork, in fact on my latest project there is was cork gasket as I discovered when I redid the time chain/camshaft, only a bead of RTV which was a headache to slide the timing cover. No obnoxious leaks...

When I have done cork, I use permatex #2.

A little search yielded this result from the felpro site:

http://www.felpro-only.com/break_room_f ... hp?tid=367

or if linky no woky (it is a subaru... but same idea)

the clean surfaces you have are key here, make sure the oil pan is nice and flat as well. You should not need to use any RTV anywhere between the gasket and the engine block unless where the 2 case halves meet there is a step.

You may want to use some blue thread locker on the bolt threads, not RTV.

Install it to the factory specs of 3.6 ft. lbs. Since many torque wrenches do not go that low accurately, you may want to use a inch pound wrench set to 43 in. lbs.

Do not use RTV, Vaseline or anything else on the gasket, it will cause the gasket to slip, extrude or split during the torque up.

Thanks for choosing Fel-Pro!

otherwise a good summary about cork gasket -they do not age well, they dry while being stored-

https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/mus/2 ... 99759.html

Cork: Pure cork is the inner bark of the Mediterranean live oak tree. For gaskets, granules of this cork are held together with binders that are either phenolic resins or latex. It is the binder that gives cork gaskets certain undesirable characteristics.

Gaskets made of cork have several disadvantages. The shelf life of cork gaskets is relatively short, since they lose moisture, shrink and become brittle. They also have a tendency to "wick." This is caused by capillary action pulling oil through the voids between the cork granules.

For this reason, many hobbyists who see dirt and oil film on the outside of an oil pan or valve cover with a cork gasket believe that it is leaking, and consequently over-tighten the hold-down bolts. This will not stop the natural wicking process that is responsible for the dirt accumulation. It only distorts the sheetmetal of the part and creates a leak.

Automotive cork gaskets do offer some advantages over other materials. They are easily installed on wet or dry surfaces, due to their high coefficient of friction. The cork product also has excellent compressibility and possesses good torque retention.

Cork is used in applications where oil is to be contained, where bolt loading is low, and where there are no pressure and temperature extremes.

Bon courage
Jeep Wagoneer 1965 4dr 327

letank
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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by letank »

tara wrote:Hi my friend,

there are only cork gasket for my engines and there are two parts gaskets :

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Oil-Pan ... 3400a6bfea

do you use this permatex ? :

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Permatex-2-For ... rk:21:pf:0

some people suggest to use only black rtv permatex with cork gaskets, what do you think ?

do you put rtv on both sides ? do you alow to dry ovenight before torquing to specs ?

many questions, but it seems not so easy to do it the right way ....
Salut,
Indeed there are many ways to skin a cat. When I use the permatex that you listed, it goes on both sides of the cork gasket, a small bead enough to cover the cork gasket. Not too familiar w the 327, but you may need to add a dab of RTV silicone by the front and rear engine case where the cork meets the end of the engine block.

Otherwise you can only use a big goop of RTV instead of the cork gasket, about 1/4" or 4 mm thick and install the oil pan, and tighten the bolts finger tight until the RTV starts to ooze from the oil pan, let it sit overnight, then tighten until the oil pan bolts are tight enough, the torque on the oil pan is small. You may need to recheck latter the tightness

that is what I did for the intake manifold end rubber gaskets, no rubber gaskets, only RTV silicone

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44bz
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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by 44bz »

I used permatex copper spray on my 327 oil pan gasket. I wouldn’t suggest rtv.


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1968 J2000 - AMC 327/T18/D20 (twin stick), stock D44s, 3" body lift, 35x12.50 Goodyear MTRs w/ Kevlar
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tara
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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by tara »

44bz wrote:I used permatex copper spray on my 327 oil pan gasket. I wouldn’t suggest rtv.


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you use it on both sides ? not even a dab rtv where the gaskets meet ?
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44bz
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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by 44bz »

tara wrote:
44bz wrote:I used permatex copper spray on my 327 oil pan gasket. I wouldn’t suggest rtv.


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you use it on both sides ? not even a dab rtv where the gaskets meet ?
I sprayed both sides, no rtv at the joint, and no leaks.


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1968 J2000 - AMC 327/T18/D20 (twin stick), stock D44s, 3" body lift, 35x12.50 Goodyear MTRs w/ Kevlar
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tara
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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by tara »

i asked this question to Fel pro gasket support forum and this is the response :

"sealant should only be used in the locations where the gasket pieces meet or if there is a joint in the sealing surface. We don't have a repair manual for this applicaiton, but if there are any joints in the oil pan mounting surface on the block from components meeting the block, apply a dab of sealant in these areas as well.

Generally you will want to assemble and torque everything while the RTV is still flowable to allow the RTV to fill the areas it needs to fill. If you want to torque the pan until the RTV has set, it may split during torque-up. Check the packaging for the RTV you use for any further instructions though. Allow the RTV to cure for the amount of time specified by the RTV manuafacturer before refilling the engine with oil and running it. "
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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by SJTD »

Seems like double-talk. Says to tighten before it cures then warns that if you do the gasket may split.

With cork I glue it to the block first with something like Gasgacinch that will hold it in place then use Silicone on the pan side. That way the gasket won't squeeze out and the RTV can fill the voids.
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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by tara »

It is STILL LEAKING after installing a new gasket following yours advises. WTF ???
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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by Stuka »

Use high tack, RTV sucks.

High tack never hardens, it fills any voids, and I have literally never had something leak when I used it. I use it for pretty much any cork/paper gaskets that has oil or coolant going by it.

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-80062-H ... B000HBGHB8

On a side note, are you sure its the pan gasket, and not the main seals?
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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by rocklaurence »

IMO, Indian Head gasket sealer is best for cork. It's thin-very sticky.

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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by candymancan »

I love rtv.. but also hate how messy it can be... i also hate cork... when i took my 360s pan off it had the original cork gaskrt still in.. it was like welded to the pan.. i had to use a wire wheel kn my drill to sand it off. Also the corak was brittle as hell.. some of it broke off into the oilpan.. Chunks were laying on thr bottom of the sump.. and others were blocking 75% of the oil pickup tube screen.

I did put cork back on because i couldnt find a silicone gasket for the pil pan. I tried all RTV but it leaked for some reason. Didnt leak with thr cork though
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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by tara »

ImageIMG_2952 by Simon Hiquily, sur Flickr

i m not sure if it leaks from the cork gasket or from the main seal ?
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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by PossumJr »

If that is the only area with leakage and the rear main seal is still original, my money is on that as being the culprit.
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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by tara »

my engine was rebuilt less than 10 000 miles ago, and i m almost 100% sure that a new main seal was installed
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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by letank »

time to put some UV dye in the engine oil:
Clean the area with solvent, paint thinner is good, white gas works well too (white spirit , kerosene pour les francophones)
Pour the needed amount of dye in the engine oil (I'd say an ounce), start for 1 or 2 min, turn off... better done at night or in a very shaded area to use the UV glasses to spot the leak.
But as usual make sure that it is not the valve cover gaskets leaking, or the front area, as oil can travel around the engine pan
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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by tara »

i have noticed that when engine is at idle for a long time, it starts to leak a lot.
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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by candymancan »

I tried to replace my rear main... i could only do the lower half on the crank main bearing. I couldnt get the upper one to budge and i didnt wanna damage it with screws in it... it sucks.

I lose like a quart ina half every 1500 miles... and its from the rear main.. but oil is cheapee then paying a shop to replace it
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
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1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
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Re: tips for installing a cork oil pan gasket on my 327 ?

Post by tara »

candymancan wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:37 pm I tried to replace my rear main... i could only do the lower half on the crank main bearing. I couldnt get the upper one to budge and i didnt wanna damage it with screws in it... it sucks.

I lose like a quart ina half every 1500 miles... and its from the rear main.. but oil is cheapee then paying a shop to replace it
I think that i m remenbering now that my mecano guy told me the same... hum...
Jeep Wagoneer 1965 4dr 327
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