89 GW new to the group

[mhubbard]

hello all,
I purchased a new-to-me 89 Grand Wagoneer a few months ago. Today, she is having her engine pulled and sent for a complete rebuild at a shop a couple of towns away. They come highly recommended and it will be done for a fraction of the remanufactured engine cost. I had replacement options ranging from dropping a mystery 401 from a junkyard Honcho to getting a reman'd Jasper... both of which would have cost me north of $3-5K or more when all was said and done. I chose the rebuild route due to cost (well-regarded shop will do it for a little more than $1K) and if all goes according to plan, the motor should be ready in 3 weeks or so. I know this isn't the simplest route, but this thing ain't no beauty queen and I couldn't really justify spending more on the rebuild than I bought my waggy for.

The good news is that a couple months prior to my purchasing this little gem, the PO had a new Edelbrock intake manifold and Holly 4barrel carb installed.... they look scrumptious. So everything south of those two nuggets will be rebuilt!

Now here is the question.... and I am sure it will fire up a lot of opinions.... but what all should I do/have done before getting her back on the road? I am thinking some sort of improved open-air filter set up (K&N) and distributor/ignition coil combo. I live in NC and I don't think they frown too much if some of the smog stuff disappears on these older machines. Cars of this vintage require safety inspections only - they don't pop the hood. I have heard opinions for and against killing the cat; which I know to be harmful to newer cars, but I wonder if there are any negative effects of doing it to an engine that wasn't designed with this stuff in mind anyhow.

I want to get the most oooomph out of this rebuild. I know that the paltry power these 360s gave from the factory can be improved.... and I want to make that happen.

[mhubbard]

For starters, I want to get the RV cam upgrade I've read about. So that should give me 10% increase in HP and a bump in torque, yes?

Thanks, Mike

[ShagWagon]

Sell carb and use it towards a fuel injection kit.

[REDONE]

Meh, numbers are just numbers. 10% this 50% that. The Edelbrock Performer and Melling MTA-1 (the RV cam) are the same grind and wake up a sleepy stock engine a bit, but axle gearing makes an exponential difference compared to chicken pecking go-fast engine parts. Replacing the cam creates a lot of opportunity for wrecking other things too. Most replace the timing set at the same time which almost universally have screwed up oil passages which rob the dizzy gears of oil so they go out in 1000 miles or so.

You can dink around with these old cast iron 90 degree V-8s and make them look and sound nice, but a new Honda accord with it's tiny 3.5L V-6 makes more hp than Smokey and the Bandits 6.6L TransAm did. If you haven't dropped coin on rebuilding an engine yet, I highly recommend researching a 5.3L GM swap. There's something to be said for the "get in a drive" of a modern engine swap.

[Charles Kline]

Sell carb and use it towards a fuel injection kit.

Might as well shove a LS1 in there and call it a cheby.


(The FI and LS guys are a very vocal bunch in the FSJ groups -LS1 guys more so on FB)

Stick with Carb.

[letank]

You can dink around with these old cast iron 90 degree V-8s and make them look and sound nice, but a new Honda accord with it's tiny 3.5L V-6 makes more hp than Smokey and the Bandits 6.6L TransAm did. If you haven't dropped coin on rebuilding an engine yet, I highly recommend researching a 5.3L GM swap. There's something to be said for the "get in a drive" of a modern engine swap.

X2, honestly, Is the engine that tired that you need it rebuilt? I know too late, unless it is really burning oil like smoke stack, the best $$ are spent on improving 50 year old technology to some modern amenities, TFI coil, large cap distributor, ignition switch, electric fuel pump, and replacing all those leaky trany seals, TC seals and any rubber hoses.

As for the rebuilt timing chain combo, make sure that you get the matching oiling slots, otherwise as said above, in a few hundred miles, time for another money dumping session

http://theamcforum.com/forum/edelbrock- ... page4.html

Indeed better gearing will give you a big smile, your 89 has probably a 2.71 unless it is a towing package special with 3.31

Welcome to the asylum

[mhubbard]

Yeah yeah.... I know the GM plant is plug and play. But I coulda gotten that from a used Tahoe!

[mhubbard]

So the PO told me that it had been rebuilt around 170k, but that was about 4 years ago and the quality of the rebuild is dubious. His description of the mechanic included a shady tree. Now it is at 175k (having clocked minimal miles over the past few years. The engine didn't burn any oil - not a bit that I could tell! - and it didn't drip (much), but it had shtty compression in three of the cylinders (according to two separate shops). I had it going 70mph just a few days before I took it to the shop, but for the life of me it ran like crap around town. Honestly, it had been getting worse over the past few weeks. The mechanics I have discussed this point to bum piston rings as probable cause.

I am comfortable sticking with the 360. No desire to deal with the hassle of reengineering a new engine to mate up to stuff. That involves a level of mechanical dedication and $$$ that I don't want to get into.

[Nikkormat]

Don't waste time with the "RV Cam". Mine sucks, makes less power than the flat old stock white stripe cam that was in my 401.

Order this Summit K8600: https://m.summitracing.com/parts/sum

And THIS Cloyes True Roller timing set: https://m.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-1118

Don't let the low price of the cam scare you. The summit cam is made by CWC TEXTRON up in Michigan. An OE supplier of cams to American Motors. The Cloyes timing set is also US made! And the oiling holes are in the correct place on both the cam and timing set!

[mhubbard]

Nikkormat, This is good stuff!!! Thanks!

[mhubbard]

So what is the opinion on the cat? Keep or cut?

[Charles Kline]

Keep the Cat, it does a good job of burning off unburnt fuel, and they don't restrict much.

[mhubbard]

I guess take the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach. Okay, I'm fine with that.

Thennnnn.... what about air pump and other above-board smog stuff???

Oh, and is there a particular water pump any of you guys would recommend?

[mhubbard]

and alternator??? the current one looks a bit ancient and I think a new one would be a nice touch.

[Charles Kline]

I'm in emission control country so I have to have the air pump. I don't mind it. I did clean up the spaghetti mess of vac hoses. The EGR is very important to NOx level and to keep combustion chamber temp low.

There are posts on the alt and water pump, a quick search will pull up a bunch of results/recommendations. (spend the extra few bucks on the aluminum WP)

[mhubbard]

Don't waste time with the "RV Cam". Mine sucks, makes less power than the flat old stock white stripe cam that was in my 401.

Order this Summit K8600: https://m.summitracing.com/parts/sum

And THIS Cloyes True Roller timing set: https://m.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-1118

Don't let the low price of the cam scare you. The summit cam is made by CWC TEXTRON up in Michigan. An OE supplier of cams to American Motors. The Cloyes timing set is also US made! And the oiling holes are in the correct place on both the cam and timing set!

Nikkormat, will that Summit K8600 work in mine? Summit just states that this cam applies to the 70-78 AMC 360. Mine is an 89. Why doesn't Summit state that it will apply to later 360s?

[REDONE]

There's two schools in alternators. One goes for the biggest they can. I consider our member serehill to be the authority on high amp FSJ electrical. The other group likes to keep it close to stock, which prevents over current loads and heat on our antiquated and old electrical systems. I fall in the latter. I try to reduce the overall electrical load so a smaller alternator meets my needs, with a high amp battery to run my winch when needed. I don't do the kind of wheeling where my winch is put to constant use though. If that's your goal so a search of serehills posts for all the best ways to improve your electrical system.

The aftermarket water pumps don't seem to last long in our rigs. Cast iron OE style arms best with some evolving opinions on current best radiator.

If you don't have emissions inspections where you live now, didn't mean you won't in the future. I didn't where I lived in WA, but do now that I moved back home to CO. Sure would've been nice to have it all there rather then piece meal it all back together!

[Nikkormat]

Don't waste time with the "RV Cam". Mine sucks, makes less power than the flat old stock white stripe cam that was in my 401.

Order this Summit K8600: https://m.summitracing.com/parts/sum

And THIS Cloyes True Roller timing set: https://m.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-1118

Don't let the low price of the cam scare you. The summit cam is made by CWC TEXTRON up in Michigan. An OE supplier of cams to American Motors. The Cloyes timing set is also US made! And the oiling holes are in the correct place on both the cam and timing set!

Nikkormat, will that Summit K8600 work in mine? Summit just states that this cam applies to the 70-78 AMC 360. Mine is an 89. Why doesn't Summit state that it will apply to later 360s?

I have no clue why some manufacturers think the cams only work to 1978. All they did in 1979 is add an additional freeze plug and change the timing marks on the timing cover.

Yes, it will work fine.

[Nikkormat]

I guess take the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach. Okay, I'm fine with that.

Thennnnn.... what about air pump and other above-board smog stuff???

Oh, and is there a particular water pump any of you guys would recommend?

I say keep the air pump for now too. EGR will help gas mileage among other things folks have already mentioned.

There are a few schools of thought out there on water pumps. Some people don't trust the aluminum GMB units but I haven't seen any evidence of them being junk yet. The impeller design is better on the GMB aluminum pumps too.

If you want to stay cast iron you will need to spend some time on the grinder touching up the casting. There is a well documented issue with the pumps hitting the harmonic balancer: http://theamcforum.com/forum/water-pump ... 56995.html

I say go aluminum. It's like $3 bucks more and they actually fit: http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php ... 399&jpid=4

[mhubbard]

Roger that! I'll order tomorrow!