QuadraTrac Fluid in Part-Time TC?

[tgreese]

Mmm. If you want try and revive the right locking hub, suggest you remove the parts, get a pan and a gallon of paint thinner and clean the grease. Then put it back together with a light coating of grease (ie white lithium in a spray can) and see if it works. Dunno, seems more likely to me the hub is broken not stuck, and the packing with grease was a repair attempt or to keep it quiet.

If it were mine, I would buy some Warns and replace both. I've had to buy new locking hubs for my CJ-6 and my J20. Both came to me with one of the hubs broken. No parts are available today.

If you have a working Quadratrac, any locking hubs could ruin the transfer case, if not from you from others via mischief or ignorance.

Assuming these are Mile Marker hubs, they still sell them, The installation instructions are online. You might gain some insight on how they are installed etc.

[Country Jeep]

Mmm. If you want try and revive the right locking hub, suggest you remove the parts, get a pan and a gallon of paint thinner and clean the grease. Then put it back together with a light coating of grease (ie white lithium in a spray can) and see if it works. Dunno, seems more likely to me the hub is broken not stuck, and the packing with grease was a repair attempt or to keep it quiet.

If it were mine, I would buy some Warns and replace both. I've had to buy new locking hubs for my CJ-6 and my J20. Both came to me with one of the hubs broken. No parts are available today.

If you have a working Quadratrac, any locking hubs could ruin the transfer case, if not from you from others via mischief or ignorance.

Assuming these are Mile Marker hubs, they still sell them, The installation instructions are online. You might gain some insight on how they are installed etc.

I’m willing to just buy new hubs given the driver side is also a bit finicky. They are, to my understanding, not Mile Marker hubs however; they are a cousin or variants of these, as you can see how Lock and Free are both positioned, and the font used. I haven’t been able to find any Mile Marker branded hubs, old or new, that have short-action free and lock, or use this font. So I’ll get the ones linked, unless anyone might suggest better.

All that said of course, we still don’t know if the tc is full-time or part-time. With where I’m currently sat, what would be the next best move? Is it possible for me to still do the torque bias test simply by locking the broken front passenger side with a rod like I did the other night ago? Or something else that would make more sense here?

[tgreese]

I understand the factory locking hubs from Jeep were Warns labeled as "Jeep." Not certain, but I think this style fits several different makes. They could be Jeep factory from the junkyard or?

Here's the page from the '74-80 special equipment catalog

factoryhubs (1276 x 1748).jpg

Watching the action with the hex key on the left hub, I'd guess it's less broken than the right hub.

Re the torque bias test, yes, you need to hold the front driveshaft somehow. I imagine you could put a big pipe wrench on the driveshaft and that would suffice. You need to be sure that it's out of e-drive. Note that you can ruin the LSD in the case by spinning it while missing a driveshaft or such; a ruined Quadratrac might provide little LS action. Dunno - I've only been around these Jeeps, and never owned any with an automatic except my current KL.

[OldFarmTruck22]

Here's a question for ya: Have you checked how much play you have in the transfer case inner drive chain? It's not a belt, it's a chain. If there is more than 1/2" upper deflection, you may as well replace that chain, it's too much play. Once you are in there you can confirm whether you have a part-time kit installed.

[Country Jeep]

Here's a question for ya: Have you checked how much play you have in the transfer case inner drive chain? It's not a belt, it's a chain. If there is more than 1/2" upper deflection, you may as well replace that chain, it's too much play. Once you are in there you can confirm whether you have a part-time kit installed.

Took a video of the process - came back with 1.75” from chain to tc surface - but I may have read the measurements wrong. Is less than 2.21” from the tc surface good or bad? I’m using this guy’s method here since the TSM doesn’t have a method without the specialty tool, and as stated in my video, I thought my measurement meant it was bad, but based on his recap, it sounds like it’s good, if not unusually tight.

[OldFarmTruck22]

That is not the way I measure 'play' in that chain. I use a small flashlight and a screwdriver or punch small enough to fit up through the access hole. I put the screwdriver up to the chain 90 degrees to the access hole as best I can, JUST until it touches the chain at rest, make a mark on the screwdriver blade flush with the outside of the case. Then press up on the screwdriver HARD until I have pushed all the play out of the chain in an upward direction, again as 90 degrees to the access hole as possible. When it will move no further UP, make another mark on the screwdriver blade flush with the outside of the case. The difference between those two marks is the amount of 'play' roughly in your chain.

[Country Jeep]

That is not the way I measure 'play' in that chain. I use a small flashlight and a screwdriver or punch small enough to fit up through the access hole. I put the screwdriver up to the chain 90 degrees to the access hole as best I can, JUST until it touches the chain at rest, make a mark on the screwdriver blade flush with the outside of the case. Then press up on the screwdriver HARD until I have pushed all the play out of the chain in an upward direction, again as 90 degrees to the access hole as possible. When it will move no further UP, make another mark on the screwdriver blade flush with the outside of the case. The difference between those two marks is the amount of 'play' roughly in your chain.

10-4. I’ve got a screwdriver long enough to do so that I can use later this evening or tomorrow. Not sure if I have the strength or not, we’ll see and I’ll report back

[tgreese]

As a sanity check, if you subtract the length that you measured from the critical length (the go vs no go length) you get 2.21 - 1.75 = 0.46, nearly one-half inch. This seems a lot more (maybe three times more?) than what we see protruding from the tool in his new chain example.

With the chain in the vehicle and hanging loose, you should be able to feel the deflection as the chain goes from slack to tight. If you turn the rear driveshaft clockwise from the rear, that will tension the top side of the chain and let the bottom side hang down. The deflection you feel should be double the wear distance (slack) whatever it is (hanging down to tensioned up). The video guy talks a lot but does not tell you the dimensions of the tool, unless I'm missing something. He only tells you the critical length from the outer surface of the case to the tensioned chain. Argh.

Contrary to what's stated, the spring matters to accuracy. Likely the difference in the spring pressure and the tube-in-hand pressure gives the slight difference in the tool and the improvised method. Is 10 thou important? Can't say without knowing the amount that the slack changes over the life of the chain.

You only need two numbers from the special tool - the length of the inner rod, and the length of the outer tube minus the threaded portion. The difference should be the critical length, 2.21". Maybe they are given somewhere online.

Ya know, most owners replace the chain when it gets noisy. When the chain has too much slack, the transfer case will go clunk under load. I presume this is the stretched chain riding up on the teeth of one of the sprockets and falling back into the grooves. It can get really bad before the case self-destructs. Just what I gather - no personal experience.

[OldFarmTruck22]

No 'special tool' needed. Just experience with BW1339's.

[tgreese]

The chain is heavy, and when you have the case upside down and out of the vehicle, gravity is helping you to tension the chain. This changes how much work is needed to make a tension measurement. Possible you are under the case, and not pushing hard enough on the chain to get an accurate slack measurement. You come in contact with the chain at 1.75" because you are not working hard enough to lift the chain to the tensioned position. The tool helps, both by pushing with a calibrated spring, and by screwing in, which increase your mechanical advantage way beyond how hard you can push straight in. Suggest you push as hard as you can to make your measurement, transfer case in neutral, and let both driveshafts turn.

[Country Jeep]

Video of process (and shaky arm).

Photos of rough measured difference from tip of screwdriver on chain to opening, and tip of screwdriver pressed in as hard as I can to opening:

IMG_4060.jpeg

IMG_4061.jpeg

[tgreese]

Yeah, I'd think pushed in hard is what you want. If 2", then 0.21" of wear remaining. This seems more like the result for the new chain in the previously attached video.

1/4" deflection seems like not much (ie good). Again, I warn I have no experience making this test - others should comment if I'm wrong. Even the factory chains wear out fairly soon, because the chain drives both front and rear axles. The later New Process cases use a chain, but it only drives the front axle... this puts much less of a load on the chain, and these chains seems to last as long as the vehicle.

From what I've read, the factory Quadratrac chains last something like 60K-100K miles. The replacement import chains somewhat less. Decades ago, all the OEM chains (Morse) were hunted from their hiding places, and they are gone. There was a period with only the imports. Then another domestic maker (Ramsey?) began producing chains - I understand these are as good as the OEM chains. https://bjsoffroad.com/quadratrac-chain ... de-in-usa/

[Srdayflyer]

i have never seen the front drive shaft from the t.c. spin so freely, with the hubs locked so should the drive shaft be unable to turn unless the wheels are off the ground then the wheels would turn with the drive shaft rotation have you pulled the front pumpkin cover and taken a look see to maake sure the pinion and ring gears are ok, i had a cj7 i boufht second party original owner never locked the hubs or engaged the t.c. , within a month the front end went out, the ring gear sat so long that the oil drained off and the gear teeth un lubricated were so rusted that when i started using 4x4 mode the gears ate themselves up, i would take a look, the most it will cost is a tube of rtv and 80-90 wt gear oil and then you can cross that off the list , imo

[Country Jeep]

i have never seen the front drive shaft from the t.c. spin so freely, with the hubs locked so should the drive shaft be unable to turn unless the wheels are off the ground then the wheels would turn with the drive shaft rotation have you pulled the front pumpkin cover and taken a look see to maake sure the pinion and ring gears are ok, i had a cj7 i boufht second party original owner never locked the hubs or engaged the t.c. , within a month the front end went out, the ring gear sat so long that the oil drained off and the gear teeth un lubricated were so rusted that when i started using 4x4 mode the gears ate themselves up, i would take a look, the most it will cost is a tube of rtv and 80-90 wt gear oil and then you can cross that off the list , imo

Already removed last year, looked okay at the time. The good news is, the driveshaft and axle do in fact lock using the drivers-side hub, so the current assumption is that - bare minimum - the passenger-side hub is broken. New Warn hubs are delivering today; I'll try tackling it this weekend. Going to use this video as a point of reference, unless there's a better one someone knows of.

[tgreese]

Well, installing Warn hubs is a super-easy job. Waiting through an instructional video is a waste of time IMO. Just follow the instructions included and bolt them on. Reuse the snap ring on the end of the axle if it's present, item C above. Stick a bolt into the axle end and pull out to expose the snap ring groove, as needed.

[Country Jeep]

Well, installing Warn hubs is a super-easy job. Waiting through an instructional video is a waste of time IMO. Just follow the instructions included and bolt them on. Reuse the snap ring on the end of the axle if it's present, item C above. Stick a bolt into the axle end and pull out to expose the snap ring groove, as needed.

You weren’t kidding, that was 15 mins max for one, and most of that was cleaning out the old grease.

Good news is the old hub was in fact broke. Can’t visibly see how it was broke, but with the new one on, it now works. Video here for current behavior. Text version: If both are free, driveshaft is easy to turn. If both are locked, driveshaft and axles are fully locked. If only one hub is locked on either side, then the driveshaft will turn, but with some more resistance. That sound like correct behavior?

[Srdayflyer]

yep its working as advertised

[Country Jeep]

With the hubs now working, I got out the new Mityvac and put it to work. Video here of the attempt.

Text version: I’m not getting any clicking sound from putting 15psi on either front or rear nipple of the transfer case vacuum solenoid. Because the original vacuum lines currently run to open air under the hood, I’m using one of the silicone caps to seal the opposing nipple as I try, but despite that and making sure my hose is on tight, I’m losing vacuum slowly on the front nipple, and QUICKLY on the rear. The solenoid also spins freely and moves in and out by a lot.

In any case, 15psi to either nipple results in no click, and the driveshaft spins freely in either setting.

[tgreese]

If you have an indicator light, it should change with the setting. Regardless of the click.

The vacuum diaphragms are known to fail. If your MityVac is not leaking, the diaphragm should hold air, I'd think. Looks like BJ's has a replacement available ($$) - expensive enough that I'd try to fit a cable control.

Same caveat - no personal experience. I've worked around these cases but never owned one.

[Country Jeep]

If you have an indicator light, it should change with the setting. Regardless of the click.

The vacuum diaphragms are known to fail. If your MityVac is not leaking, the diaphragm should hold air, I'd think. Looks like BJ's has a replacement available ($$) - expensive enough that I'd try to fit a cable control.

Same caveat - no personal experience. I've worked around these cases but never owned one.

Got it. Someone’s lending some aid over on IFSJA, so I’ll follow along there for now. In the meantime, turns out I wasn’t a complete idiot, just a partial one: Had saved this after all, was just tucked away in the shed:

IMG_4180.jpeg