TeamRush ignition upgrade

[yz400e]

Hi,

I am so far in over my head, I thought I would be clever and do the upgrade as described in many writeups.

1976 J10 with V8 and points ignition.

I was at the autoparts store and every Ford distributor from 1979 to the 1990's has a different 'tower' than the one in my jeep. It is much larger in diameter.

Below is a picture of the distributor out of my engine and below it is a sample Ford one (in this case a 1979 - F350 , 460 CID)

Any one know the correct part number ? Anyone know how to contact 'TeamRush" ? I would like to see if they did indeed assemble a 'kit' as I think I saw somewhere.

thanks,

Mark

[ClovisMan]

You cannot just swap out a "points" style ignition with a newer Motorcraft distributor. You would need to wire in the motorcraft ignition module, coil, distributor, etc. To upgrade points, I would honestly just get an AMC HEI distributor or go with an MSD ignition upgrade.

[tgreese]

A '76 never came with points ignition. Someone has swapped the original Prestolite electronic ignition for the '74 and earlier Delco points ignition.

That does not matter, because you cannot do the "Team Rush" upgrade on any Jeep distributor older than 1978. This upgrade requires the 1978 or later Motorcraft Duraspark distributor, which Jeep went to after they discontinued the Prestolite.

If you want to install the Jeep 304/360 V8 distributor from 1978 or newer, then you can do the "Team Rush" upgrade. It's an electronic distributor, and you will need a control module and additional wiring to make it work.

AFAIK "Team Rush" is a made-up name that someone on JeepForum.com ("Jeephammer" maybe) uses to describe this assembly of factory parts. Pretty sure there is no "Team Rush" as such.

[Tatsadasayago]

x2 on the AMC-GM HEI dizzy for simple and reasonable in cost.
Summitracing has em for a good price.

[REDONE]

yz400e, Just to make sure, you know you don't have a ford engine, right? The distributor you're after was made by motorcraft for AMC and doesn't fit in any ford engine. Just like the TH400 that came in our Jeeps was made by GM, but won't bolt up to any GM motor.

[yz400e]

thanks for the responses. I am so tempted to go with the MSD or equivalent HEI all in one upgrade. I see an MSD one on BJs ready to wire in for $365 plus $100 for wires. Right now to simplify things that would be best but delivery time would take too long. I looked at summit racing real quickly this morning. They have their house brand, MSD, and DUI (always reminds me of driving under the influence), I felt it would take too long to research which one I needed and what if any extra parts needed to be ordered so I passed on that. I already spent time on that with the upgrade.

Whatever I do, I need to have this thing running by Friday. Ordering online would take several days for it to be delivered and then I would only have 1 day to install and make sure it is running.

I had started with the 'team rush upgrade' and sourced some parts months ago: motorcraft ignition module, cap base, cap, rotor, then I went to the wrecking yard, found an 80's ford and yarded the newer 'square' coil (with bracket) plus all the wiring harness connectors I thought I would need: harness to distributor, harness to module, harness to coil.

I kept thinking that i needed a ford distributor. that was a serious error. I need the more modern AMC so thanks for pointing that out. I went and picked one up at the parts house for a 1980 J10. I will probably still need the adapters available on summit racing but I am at the point I can start bolting it all together and can do a temporary adapter to the harness plug so I can start it and see if it runs. That will let me get further along with checking it out while waiting for the adapters to come in.

I'm sure I'll stumble somewhere else along the way so thanks again for the thoughts.

[yz400e]

yz400e, Just to make sure, you know you don't have a ford engine, right? The distributor you're after was made by motorcraft for AMC and doesn't fit in any ford engine. Just like the TH400 that came in our Jeeps was made by GM, but won't bolt up to any GM motor.

Yeah, I keep equating motocraft with ford and shouldn't. I'm sure the parts guys hate me by now. LOL

[REDONE]

yz400e, Just to make sure, you know you don't have a ford engine, right? The distributor you're after was made by motorcraft for AMC and doesn't fit in any ford engine. Just like the TH400 that came in our Jeeps was made by GM, but won't bolt up to any GM motor.

Yeah, I keep equating motocraft with ford and shouldn't. I'm sure the parts guys hate me by now. LOL

Totally. One of the FSJs I bought came with a complete engine rebuild kit the PO didn't have time to do which is why he was selling it. Unfortunately it was for a Chrysler 360, so the lifters were the only parts I was able to use.

[Tatsadasayago]

Yep! The 360 and 400 engines confuse people often.

I believe all the Detroit automakers had a 400 at one time or another. More than once I got parts from NAPA for a Ford/Pontiac/Chevrolet/Buick/Olds for my Mopar BB 400...

[jeep_boy02]

I would recommend the HEI route for sure. I have done that as one of the first things to do on about 7 different jeeps now. Way more simpler and reliable. Two wires at most(if you use a tach) and that is it! no brain, no coil, no wire harness... Just wire into a keyed hot source.

I went with DUI on my CJ just because I try to put the best on there cause I know I'll never part with it. Used 4WDs house branded ones on the rest.

DUIs go for $300 and have a specific tune for AMC V8s were as the others I am not sure about the tune, it may be just a generic but go for around $145
I also went with the DUI wires on my CJ for IIRC $90 but just regular 8MM spiral core I think from the parts store on the others

[tgreese]

Realize that there is a brain and a coil in the HEI, inside that ginormous distributor cap. The Jeep factory Duraspark is the same type of ignition, in a different package. Same operating principle, and you can mix and match parts between them. To me, the aftermarket HEIs seem like a solution looking for a problem, since they don't really do anything different from the Jeep factory Duraspark ignition. That, and all the horror stories of aftermarket HEI distributors destroying cam gears ...

But this has always been a Ford vs. Chevy kind of a debate.

[jeep_boy02]

Yes you are correct mostly but It packages all those components in one single location with all built in connections. Does away with 2 remotely mounted components, at least 4 electrical connector points, and probably 30 ft of wires. So chances of a problem happening and its some tiny issue in a harness and takes weeks to fish out or never really shows itself for a fix is greatly diminished..

The cam gear problems stem from cheaply sourced swaps and could have been got around if they would have used the original gears or replaced both gears at same time with a matched set. Most of those companies have addressed this issue as I have heard lately.

[tgreese]

Like I said, this is pretty much a Ford vs. Chevy topic, where a lot of words get said and nobody's mind ever gets changed...

Nonetheless, in my considered opinion the central appeal of the HEI for an AMC V8 is aesthetics... folks like the HEI distributor for the same reasons they can't stand having all that extra emissions stuff under the hood, no matter how reliable or inoffensive or effective those devices are. They seem ugly, and cluttered, and mysterious - therefore they must go. The observer's ego is also an issue ... it's less distressing to put all that extra complexity in an opaque package where it does not need to be understood - out of sight, out of mind.

If the engine were a Chevy or even a Buick, that's a different story. But for an AMC, you have your choice between a USA-made OEM part (even if it's remanufactured) and an import part with a scary history and an uncertain source. I would consider both alternatives before I chose bowtie or blue oval.

[yz400e]

Hey everyone, sorry for not replying sooner but those last few days were quite hectic. Unfortunately I ran out of time and didn't get the beast running. I didn't take a picture of it but it was all together and all I had to do was wire the ignition (I stayed with the upgraded AMC ignition approach) but I had to put everything away so I could fly out the next morning. Which still frustrates me as that was money I could have used on the Jeep.

I did give the HEI approach a lot of thought and had I looked into it sooner or had it on hand it would have saved me a lot of time for sure. When I was scanning the online stores (quite rapidly) it looked like some of the HEI type systems were "all in one" but others required a separate control and I just didn't have time to figure it out nor wait for the parts to come in. So, I stayed the route I had started down. I kept thinking ford because in my notes (based on one of the write ups) using the adapter, cap, and rotor from a Ford 460 is recommended. So being in a hurry I didn't think it through and got the Ford distributor. That was an easy fix as NAPA was able to get me a rebuilt one overnight.

Where are we. Right, I have a variety of names for the old truck, none of which I can repeat here. I read once on one of the forums about how the old Jeeps will fight you the entire way as they just want to stay asleep and boy is that true. It was just one thing after another. I don't remember my '72 being this difficult but then it was only 14 years old at the time not 40.

Nothing I'm about to post hasn't been posted or said by someone else already in the past 30 years but I figured I would share my story anyway.

Originally my goal was to get it started and drive-able enough to decide what to do with it but things change and it looked like getting it road worthy to drive to Texas from Montana and use it to haul my crap back to MT was a potential plan. (I work in the oil and gas industry and the company I work for is going out of business). On Aug 5th the company filed bankruptcy for purposes of liquidation. I have about 2 months of work left to help strip everything out and get it ready to sell. Amazing what we are just throwing in the dumpster.

What has been done so far?
replaced the tank with a plastic one. not real happy with it at all. another item I should have taken a picture of but on the 1976 J10 there is only a single strap holding the tank on (no skid plate). on the factory tank, the strap was up tight against the tank the entire length but on the plastic one there is a substantial gap (about 2") between the strap and the tank towards the middle of the tank. That said, it does hold it securely at the front and rear. Blew out the hard lines, replaced the pickup and sending unit, replaced the rubber lines at the tank and engine, new mechanical fuel pump, new filter.

brakes: flushed the lines, new master cylinder, replaced rear wheel cylinders and shoes plus turned the drums. front brakes got new calipers and pads but the rotors measured out OK so the rotors were left alone.

tranny, transfer case, front diff and rear diff all have new fluids. 3.54 gear ratio and limited slip rear diff.

greased every zirk I could find. definitely need to replace some steering components.

Engine:
This is where it gets convoluted and confusing and I had to back track and redo some things and wasted a lot of time being stubborn or just not seeing the easy way to do something. At least the weather was nice and I wasn't lying in 2" of ice this time.

When I first started on the engine (when this post started), I had planned to replace the water pump, have the radiator checked and rodded, replace the distributor (ignition) and see if it ran. When I was turning the engine over by hand to move it to TDC it 'locked' up with a mechanical sound. I could rotate it backwards but could not rotate it in the correct direction (yes, the plugs had been removed and the cylinders had been soaking with miracle oil for months and turned over by hand occasionally). NOTE: I had actually tried to start it in February which is when I found out about the water pump and possible timing issue.

Upon hearing the sound, I did what any paranoid person would and panicked and figured I messed something up by turning it anti-clockwise. Then I went and had a beer or two and thought it over and decided to look at the timing set.

So I removed the water pump (again) and timing cover plus all the other stuff that is in the way (A/C, power steering, alternator) and this is what I saw:

Tchain_old_resize.jpg

here is another view. Bit of slack there.

tchain_slack_v2.jpg

After my posts asking for information on how to make sure it was timed right, I put the old set back on it, rotated the engine over until it was where it should be and then put the new set on. Looks much better

TChain_new.jpg

Somewhere along the way, I think it was when I first put the Water Pump back on (this would have been just before trying to rotate it over to TDC and finding I couldn't) I evidently didn't get the spacers correct and I managed to break the aluminum bracket that holds the power steering pump on. (Doh!). Always something huh ? So, now I have to remove the pulley from the power steering pump and get the bracket welded. I wasted several hours getting the pulley off because I just KNEW I could use a 3 jaw puller and take that durn thing off. Ha! what an idiot. So, I went to the parts store and asked if they had a puller. Lucky for me they did and it was on sale. Talk about a time saver. Definitely worth adding to the toolkit.

real_time_saver.jpg

here is the repaired bracket. I know a really good welder in my home town and he had it back the next morning. the aluminum in that bracket is junk though.

Power_steering_bracket.jpg

I'm going to upload this now and not lose anything.

[yz400e]

On the back side of the bracket, he built it up quite a bit, but I can assure you that when I was remounting the power steering pump, I got out a straight edge and determined exactly what thickness of spacers was needed so that it didn't but that arm in a bind.

I lost time messing with getting the pulley off but while the arm was being repaired, I worked on some other stuff like cleaning decades of grease off of the timing cover and other parts. I'm sure it is a toxic concoction and the EPA would crap but I have a large plastic tote (a good one), must be 2' x 3' that has slowly been acquiring a variety of cleaners: Purple power, and some other 'purple' cleaner as well as some citrus based cleaners. Whatever the concentration is I don't know but it cleans really well. The worst parts I could pull out in the morning, hose them off and they were spotless. If the timing was such I couldn't let them set for long, just 10 to 15 minutes and some light brushing was all I needed. Good stuff.

Valve covers. I know painting them is like putting lipstick on a pig but hey, it was therapeutic. I soaked them overnight, rinsed them then hit them with a wire wheel. there was still some surface rust on them so I brushed some Rust Mort onto them. interesting stuff, it leaves either a black color or a white scale but definitely converted the rust. It seems if you get it on too heavy it takes for ever to dry (stays tacky). Fortunately, it was 90 degrees outside and the sun helped dry it quite quickly. After the rust mort dried I did a light sanding to smooth it and then painted it. No one has AMC green in stock so I chose the next best color and went with Pontiacs engine color. .

after_rust_mort.jpg

valve_covers_after_rustmort.jpg

and after painting:

valve_covers_pontiac.jpg

In between farting around painting the valve covers, I was still working on the engine. Took me a long time to get the timing cover alignment studs to line up correctly. I finally figured out the trick to it but it cost me a lot of time. When I went to torque down the timing cover / water pump bolts, I picked up the torque wrench to set it and noticed that it was set at 25 ft. lbs already. the last thing I tightened down was the CamShaft sprocket bolt which should have been much more than that. So off the cover comes and go get a new gasket set. Of course they don't have one in stock but they can have it the next morning. Lost a lot of time with that one. But it was a nice day so I went for a bike ride and had some beers with friends.

Stay tuned...more silliness tomorrow.