Full Size Jeep Network

Is the NUKE PERFORMANCE BILLET SURGE TANK, with triple internal pumps available in USA & if so is it suitable for the amc 360, this is available locally here in Australia but $500 without pumps I want to be sure. The Robbmac that I have seen mentioned a few times here I cant access their go to cart section to purchase so any other recommendations, seen varying reports on fitech command centre. Thanks

Surge tanks are typically only required for engines that are pretty high power output and can quickly consume a large amount of fuel. Not sure I have seen an AMC V8 that would need one of these.

Having an in tank fuel pump is typically the best solution for EFI. If its not an option, having the pump as close to the tank as possible can work too.

I built my own using a 1/3 gallon stainless tank originally made for air horns. The mechanical fuel pump circulates fuel to/from the mail fuel tank and there is an external high pressure pump. So far so good.

The fuel pump is a bit noisy, but I like how accessible it is bolted to the frame rail.

thanks for the replies should of mentioned for installing a sniper, spoke to a mechanic about this & he agreed this would be the way to go instead of paying $100 per hour labour to drop / re-install the tank then remove the fuel pick up pipe & modify it to fit a 3/8 pipe then still have the potential stalling issues. The triple internal fuel pump system can use a low pressure pump to deliver fuel from the main tank to the surge tank & am hoping that out of the remaining two one could be used as the delivery & the other as a back up spare. Led to believe that a surge tank with internal pumps would eliminate pump heat & noise issues, no need to change fuel hose from the main tank to surge tank & sort out all the non baffled tank issues. This all true or just wishfull thinking. Seen a few descriptions of home made tanks but I also heard that fitech had issues with their product & my way of thinking is if they cant get it right I've got no hope.

I’d go with the in tank to be sure. The extra cost can be made up with the price of the surge tank.

I had the nightmare with the FCC overheating when it idles the pump doesn’t cycle enough fuel to keep it cool and shuts down till it cools off. Others have installed newer surge tanks and like them so far.

To use a in tank arrangement do I need to make my own set up or is a conversion kit available, thanks

They have a premade Novak one with the pump and sending unit drop in and ready to go that I bought. You have to call them I didn’t see it on their site anymore, to see if they still make it for FSJs. I been running mine for over 12k miles and over 2 years with zero issues.

Or make your own for about $110.00+a sending unit. Which is about half the cost.

A baffled tank, or a surge tank setup are the only ways to combat fuel starvation when you tank is really low, or when it’s sorta low and you are wheeling (on a fuel injected cars).

I run a low pressure pump which feeds a surge tank made out of a modified huge external fuel filter from a diesel, then a external high pressure pump. I would like to do a internal pump setup one day, but what I have is working fine, so I will let it be for now.

Thanks again, seen them on novak but when I clicked on it came up page not found so sent a message to them regarding if available, the amazon parts are available but wont ship to Australia so need a US address which is do-able but will wait to hear from novak first.

Talked to Jeff at Novak yesterday. They do still have the in tank pump/sending unit setup for our full sizes. They have two options, one for system that have both a feed and return, and for those that just have a feed. I asked him about the measurement from top to bottom, and he said from the top to the bottom is about 8 1/4" total. I also asked him if there was enough wire etc if I wanted to add a longer length of submersible hose to reach closer to the bottom of the tank. He said there was extra to do so. I think this is the route I am going to go with my setup, and ditch the Holley sniper fuel pump that mounts on the frame rail.

https://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/fuel-system/

It shows on that page but when you click on it, it does not display the page for it. But they do still have them.

I assume in doing this, I will just leave my in line fuel filter where it is on the frame rail. I guess I could also try and make my own setup with my existing pump and sending unit as some others have.

I think what’s happened is when they made these aftermarket sending units everyone sells, they made them mocked up on an older pre ‘85 gas tank. I have a feeling the older tanks are shallower by about 2.5”. I dont have any to compare but I’ve bought and installed 2 sending unit’s on an ‘87 and have had to extend them 2.5” so they reach the bottom. And others have too. Not that hard, but if you don’t you will starve gas at about 1/4 tank.

Yeah, I have an MTS Poly Tank in my chief and I think it is a little deeper than a stock tank. The aftermarket sending units are all about 8 1/4". Plan to extend mine down as far as I can to reach the bottom of the tank.

Anyone have any good tips on how to calibrate the separate sending unit for an MTS tank? Any good procedure for figuring out how much to bend etc.? Trying to get mine to read F and E in the right(ish) places. Don't want to run out of gas again, lol.

1979bettywhite wrote:Yeah, I have an MTS Poly Tank in my chief and I think it is a little deeper than a stock tank. The aftermarket sending units are all about 8 1/4". Plan to extend mine down as far as I can to reach the bottom of the tank.

Anyone have any good tips on how to calibrate the separate sending unit for an MTS tank? Any good procedure for figuring out how much to bend etc.? Trying to get mine to read F and E in the right(ish) places. Don't want to run out of gas again, lol.

Take 4-5 gallons of gas and drain the tank. Then set the float to empty and make sure the gauge says pegged below E and the light comes on. Then add one gallon and make sure it’s not pegged, but below the empty line, Then add another and calibrate to the line and the light still on. Then add the third and adjust till light turns off. That way you have about 3 gallons till you run out when the light comes on and should be able to get to the gas station. I had to do this several times to get it right and it’s a pain taking everything in and out so many times and drain8ng and filling the tank and checking etc.. But in the long run it’s nice to have confidence that your gauge works as it should.

Another easy way to offset the reading of the fuel gauge is to install a resistance pot inline with the fuel sender wire. This way you can tweak things a bit without having to drop the tank and mess with the sending unit.

The only problem I see with a surge tank fed by a mechanical pump is that if the vehicle runs out of gas, it's going to take a lot of cranking before the high pressure pump sees any gas.

I've been running a high pressure pump/surge tank combo (RobbMc PS500) with my Sniper 2300 since last August. IMHO, it's the only way to go. It is fed by the mechanical fuel pump -- it actually uses the entire stock fuel system -- from the tank to the hard line atop the mechanical fuel pump. I only had to extend the 5/16" rubber feed, and the 1/4" rubber return line, from the surge tank back to the hard lines on the frame. The only reason they had to be extended was that I put the surge tank where the charcoal canister used to sit on the passenger fender. Others have installed it just beneath the coolant overflow tank on the core support (next to the radiator) and used the stock rubber lines as-is.

The surge tank setup is my new go-to for several reasons:
1. It's quiet. Like, so quiet you only hear it (faintly) at key-on, when it primes the injectors. Otherwise I don't hear it.
2. Easy to install. With all the fittings and hoses, it's a 2 hour install -- tops. No dropping the tank, no rooting around on the frame rail. Takes one power wire from the Holley Sniper fuel pump relay, and one wire to ground. Install the rubber feed/return lines, install -6AN high pressure feed/return to TBI. Done.
3. Easy on the pump. No lifting fuel from the tank like a frame-mounted pump. Stays submerged in circulating fuel, so pump life should be pretty good.
4. Easy to fix. Uses an off-the-shelf Walbro pump. Take off the lid of the can, swap pump, replace lid. Done.
5. Completely solves any fuel slosh/cavitation/starvation issues. Will say that some folks run in-tank/frame rail pumps and apparently don't have a problem -- but some people definitely do. Surge tank setup completely eliminates fueling problems -- unless you completely run your tank out of gas. If that happens, take off your 5/16" rubber line and fill the surge tank with a quart of gas after you fill your gas tank. Then you will instantly restart, and prime your mechanical pump in record time.

Again, one person's experience, but I've been blown away by how well this works, how simple it was to install, and how straightforward maintenance will be if/when there's a problem.

Only other advice would be to steer clear of the FiTech Command Center. That thing was a catastrophic piece of junk. Major issues with the float system and the fact it deadheaded the TBI. Overheating, venting fuel to the engine compartment, lots of horror stories with that one. Apparently they've sorted some of the issues out with the latest Hyperfuel surge tank -- though I don't even see it listed on their website anymore. Still for sale at Summit, but not clear if they're still making them. There are much better options.

Mikel wrote:The only problem I see with a surge tank fed by a mechanical pump is that if the vehicle runs out of gas, it's going to take a lot of cranking before the high pressure pump sees any gas.

This is a very real drawback of the surge tank setup.

I was out of town for work this week and my wife ran my wagoneer out of gas. Put gas in the tank and no matter how much I cranked, engine still wasn’t getting fuel. So I had to take one of the return lines off the surge tank, dump some gas into it with a funnel, and put it back together. (Btw, if anyone has to do this with a RobbMC unit, DON’T try to put fuel into the surge tank through the “in” opening. It’s pressurized and you’ll never be able to get enough fuel in through the tiny opening.) As soon as I got it back together, it fired right up.

Not a huge amount of work, but kind of sucks having to do it on the side of the road.

Or, I guess you could always not let your wife drive your Jeep... heheh.

melford72 wrote:

Mikel wrote:The only problem I see with a surge tank fed by a mechanical pump is that if the vehicle runs out of gas, it's going to take a lot of cranking before the high pressure pump sees any gas.

This is a very real drawback of the surge tank setup.

I was out of town for work this week and my wife ran my wagoneer out of gas. Put gas in the tank and no matter how much I cranked, engine still wasn’t getting fuel. So I had to take one of the return lines off the surge tank, dump some gas into it with a funnel, and put it back together. (Btw, if anyone has to do this with a RobbMC unit, DON’T try to put fuel into the surge tank through the “in” opening. It’s pressurized and you’ll never be able to get enough fuel in through the tiny opening.) As soon as I got it back together, it fired right up.

Not a huge amount of work, but kind of sucks having to do it on the side of the road.

Or, I guess you could always not let your wife drive your Jeep... heheh.

I have that very setup -homemade-and I have run out of gas twice (inop gauge and bad math). I carry a can of ether to avoid the strain on the starter.

I have thought of putting a pressure switch in the surge tank to detect when the mechanical pump starts to suck air... But I suppose a working fuel gauge would do the trick too

Mikel wrote:
I have that very setup -homemade-and I have run out of gas twice (inop gauge and bad math). I carry a can of ether to avoid the strain on the starter.

I have thought of putting a pressure switch in the surge tank to detect when the mechanical pump starts to suck air... But I suppose a working fuel gauge would do the trick too

You’d THINK a working fuel gauge would do the trick, but not always. I’m proof that even a functional gas gauge isn’t always enough to keep your truck from ending up out of gas, on the side of the road.

My wife to me: “I didn’t know if E meant empty.”

I picked up this surge tank with upgraded fuel pump off Aliexpress for just under $100.00.