Lift and wheel/tire advise

[mineral co]

Other than a few minor excursions, I have done very little off-roading but I want to change that. As usual, trying to figure out where to start making appropriate changes to the truck is difficult when you don't have much experience.

I thought maybe the best way is to reference trails that myself as well as other members may have been on. I have been over Engineer Pass, Cinnamon Pass, and Stony Pass (Hinsdale County, CO) many times in rented Wranglers and in my own Ford pickups. I did Engineer in my crew-cab, long-bed F-550 a few years ago (in October, didn't see but two other vehicles the entire day). Probably not the smartest thing I've ever done, but it turned out fine.

The GW doesn't have anywhere near the ground clearance that the 4WD trucks had, but how much is really necessary? I consider each of the three mentioned passes to be fairly easy, straight-forward trails requiring minimal skills and abilities of either the driver or the vehicle. However, it only takes 20 feet of bad road to turn an otherwise easy trail into an impassable problem. I would like to be able to get into stuff more difficult than these passes, but I'm not looking to do anything extreme. My goal is to be able go see the scenary and vistas that the Colorado mountains offer, not to see how tough either myself or the truck are.

However, I don't want to unnecessarily prevent being able to get to the lesser traveled spots. Also, I need to keep the truck suitable for regular highway use. I know this is somewhat subjective, but what would you recommend as a starting point for lift and tires/wheels that would make for a good all-around combination? I don't want to make any more changes than necessary, but don't want to impose any inappropriate limitations on the truck either.

Sorry about the long post,

Chris

[Tad]

4" spring lift and a decent set of 31's will get you a long ways.
Some better gearing and a locker of some sort on the back will get you even further.

[mineral co]

Hi Tad,

My truck has the 3.31:1 gears, and I've gotten the impression that this was an optional ratio. Is a higher ratio than this appropriate with the 31s?

[nc wagoneer]

If you don't mind a little trimming a low lift with 31's will have a lower cog, I like fsj's because of the low cog which is why my j20 won't be seeing a lift, just larger tires (not cutting the flares though

[Stuka]

Even with a 4" lift is lower than most other vehicles.

3.31's are optional, and are livable with 31's. Not really worth regearing for 31's. The benefit doesn't offset the cost. If you ever go to 33's, then you will.

BTW: When talking ratios, 2.73:1 is a higher ratio than 3.31:1, while 4.10:1 is a lower ratio than 3.31. You do not go off the first number itself, but the ratio between the input and output.

[mineral co]

Ignorance being what it is, I believe I'm opposed to trimming at this point. But I also don't know what it would be that is getting trimmed. If it's a seam flange inside a wheel well, that's a whole other animal than anything that effects the outer body sheet metal.

Simply for a lower cog and better stability in emergency manuveurs on public roads, I would like to keep any lift as low as possible (~ 2 in.). But it may be that there is little compromise in going to a 4" lift from a handling standpoint if everything in the suspension, including the sway bar, are in good shape.

Other than shocks, it seems that there isn't much price difference between a 2" and a 4" lift. From what I've read, without trimming, it seems that the 4" lift doesn't allow for much bigger tires than a 2" lift. Either will allow 31" tires. Does the 4" lift allow 33" tires without having to get out the saw?

The truck has the stock alloy 15x7 wheels and it looks as though a lot of folks stay with this size even with some rather large tires. If this really is okay, that would allow me to go ahead and put some 31s on it now as it is in real need of new tires. Can I get away with this until a lift is installed so long as I don't do anything silly?

[mineral co]

Even with a 4" lift is lower than most other vehicles.

Yeah. My F-550 sits way up off the ground but I have no complaints about the way it handles.

BTW: When talking ratios, 2.73:1 is a higher ratio than 3.31:1, while 4.10:1 is a lower ratio than 3.31. You do not go off the first number itself, but the ratio between the input and output.

Okay, I'll admit that I'm not up on all the lingo, but that doesn't make any sense on the surface. 4.10:1 is lower gearing but, numerically, a higher ratio than 3.31:1. 2.73:1 is a higher gear but, numerically, a lower ratio than 3.31:1.

[Tad]

Hi Tad,

My truck has the 3.31:1 gears, and I've gotten the impression that this was an optional ratio. Is a higher ratio than this appropriate with the 31s?

You would be fine for the most part with 3.31's and 31's.
I suffered with 3.31's and 33's for a few years and it was pretty much a dog.

[Stuka]

Even with a 4" lift is lower than most other vehicles.

Yeah. My F-550 sits way up off the ground but I have no complaints about the way it handles.

BTW: When talking ratios, 2.73:1 is a higher ratio than 3.31:1, while 4.10:1 is a lower ratio than 3.31. You do not go off the first number itself, but the ratio between the input and output.

Okay, I'll admit that I'm not up on all the lingo, but that doesn't make any sense on the surface. 4.10:1 is lower gearing but, numerically, a higher ratio than 3.31:1. 2.73:1 is a higher gear but, numerically, a lower ratio than 3.31:1.

Basically, with a 4:1 ratio, the output is spinning slower than it is with a 3:1 ratio. So the "Lower ratio" refers to the output turning more slowly with one ratio than another. With a 4:1, the output shaft will spin once for every four rotations of the input.

[jamesdart]

i put a 4" rusty's all spring lift and the bfg km2 33x10.50, it works great. i still would like a little bigger tire, but i don't want any more lift. i ran it with the 3.08s, it was good on the highway but off the line i twas a dog. as soon as i pulled onto a trail i went right for low range. but i guess it really wasn't that bad. i just put a 700r4, 4.10s and an air locker in it, now im really liking it. i did do some very minimal trimming. overall, it works really good together for an all around rig.

[mineral co]

Thanks for all the comments.

So, here's a question that might get me laughed off the board. The back of the truck is sagging pretty bad. I just want a 2" lift and 31" tires, and I need tires NOW, but money for all this stuff is a problem. I have talked to Alcan Spring about custom springs (to maintain the best ride possible) and their prices are not bad at all.

Considering I'm just after a 2" lift, would it be really dumb to just get the rear springs now so the 31" tires will fit okay, and do the front springs next summer? I know it will have a somewhat negative effect on the castor, and the back of the truck will sit higher than the front.

Anybody got any thoughts on this?

[Stuka]

That would be fine I think, unless your front springs are very sagged.

Your other option is to get a set of 2" (steel) blocks for the back. Will lift you 2" over for now. That way if your front springs are really sagged, it wont look weird.

[mineral co]

I'll have to think about that. That would be a cheap way to get past the current problem.

[TUDrewser]

I have nothing to add, other than to say this thread has been hugely helpful to me understanding suspension upgrades and lifts. So thank you all! I'm bookmarking this one.

[will e]

I wouldn't go any lower than a 4" lift. They tend to drop down some after some miles. I ran 31" tires, 4" lift (springs all around) locker (eventually lockers) and some sliders for years and did some AMAZING things in that jeep. (3.31 ratio and the gearing was fine).

[Gumby]

I wouldn't go any lower than a 4" lift. They tend to drop down some after some miles. I ran 31" tires, 4" lift (springs all around) locker (eventually lockers) and some sliders for years and did some AMAZING things in that jeep. (3.31 ratio and the gearing was fine).

Just what i have planned over the next year, just may have to hold off on the locker(s) for a little while.

[mineral co]

Will E: I noted that you have the Alcan springs. I have been planning to go that route as I want to keep the best ride possible. What do you think of them? And, I guess, I should ask how you asked for them to be set up? I have had a small windfall, so I'm going to go ahead and order them (or somebody's) next week.

[will e]

I ordered the Alcan springs for my SOA/SF setup and only with about 1" of lift. When you go SOA (spring over axle) in the front the springs are rotated opposite during stop/start from when they are under the axle. This causes stock setup springs to bend over time. My alcans were specifically made for a SOA setup.

For a 'regular' 4" lift I don't know that I would go alcans. What I have heard is they were sold and the new owners are not as 'good'. That's what I have heard, I don't know if it is true. They tend to charge more than most. If you do decide to go Alcan make sure to weigh your truck first. Total weight then front/back. With you, your family, your stuff in it. Any custom shop (local or Alcan) can then make some spring exactly how you want them. There may be some spring shops in CO that might work for you. That would save shipping.


I had a rusty's 4" lift on my wagoneer and liked it. I didn't think the ride was too harsh. There are some other brands that are supposed to be even better. Rusty's is kind of a lower bargin price. I think BDS and Skyjacker are supposed to be a little 'softer/smoother', they cost a little more I have heard that rough country is aptly named.


Lots and lots of options!

[Eric1080]

i see you are from the high country. i know the elevation makes a difference in power for me and i wish i had 33s when wheeling above treeline as oppossed to my 34.5". (i run 4.10s and a healthy 401) if it were me id toss in a set of 2" blocks on the rear and add some 2-3" springs for the front and add some 31s. weld or locker the rear and custom make skid plates.