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Hello all new to board but long time wrench on Willys, AMC mussel cars and old fords.
My current project is a bit of an unconventional build it will be my Wife's winter daily driver we live in northern Arizona and she is a fire department dispatcher so it is mandatory that she makes it to work regardless of weather/road conditions.
the plan is to build a full size AWD wagon as it will see 90% of its time on the road and will need to deal with snow and ice as well as the last 2 or 3 miles to our house that is dirt/deep slick mud when it rains it also needs to handle well to be able to avoid the deer/elk and cattle that wander on to the highway all to often. I want as close to a 50/50 front to rear weight distribution as I can get and to keep it fairly close to stock ride height to deal with the conditions listed earlier.my plan is to use a '03 VW 1.9L tdi engine mated to a NSG 370 6 speed from a '05 Rubicon I have acquired both already I want it to be full time 4x4 with Dana 44's front and rear with a TruTrac dif in the rear and a selectable locker in front, I plan to find a Wagoneer donor vehicle for the T-case and axles and need guidance as to what T case would be best for my intended use, I have VERY limited experience with full time 4x4 so help me out it needs to be user friendly both in operating it and road manners dealing with ice at highway speeds.
The '67 has the Vigilante 327/TH-400/Dana 20 in it and with the TDI/NSG370 I should be losing close to 500# off the front end and the front of the motor will be approximately at the center line of the front axle so I think the 50/50 weight distribution goal is doable and the TDI can be easily modified to reach 200hp and 350 ft/lbs so it will be comparable to the 327 and be a lighter vehicle to boot.
well that's my plan so far what say Y'all am I too crazy/optimistic in my plans?

~90 hp and 150 ft-lbs tq?

I remember wanting a Jetta TDI for the 45+ mpg and recall guys dropping to the mid-30's bombing them.

How far can you turn it up?

Any any event, welcome to FSJN and a cool project!

From what the TDI builders that I trust tell me 200hp-350ft/lbs can be attained reliably on stock internal components and 275/450 with internal mods. My plan is to do a mechanical build with a VE pump from a 4BT so I will be going from a 10mm head to a 12mm head and add a 5K governor spring a large inter cooler and compound turbos that should get me to my goal of matching the original 327's power output.
The 4bt I am running in my 8,000lb F-250 was105hp and with a large inter cooler, 3,200 spring and a turbo upgrade to a HE221-6W brought it to 185/450 and it is still fairly modest on the fueling rates as I get much less smoke from it than the modern common rail motors put out. I am getting 20 mpg highway @ 70 mph the 4BT is a 3.8L and the TDI is 1.9L the F-250 is just over 8K with me and the wife and a full tank the Wagoneer will be just over 4K with both of us in it and it will have less drag so I "think" I should be able to pull this off....time will tell

You're not going to find a bigger fan of the ALH than me but I don't buy the reliable 200 hp motor in a Wag where you'll routinely be using 100% or more of the rated output of the engine.

This from a guy who's using a stock 100 hp motor.

What is the weight distribution front and rear of a stock 67 Waggy? I would be curious to know as I have a 67 with the same engine...


What will the modified TDI's power and fuel consumption graphs look like? If the TDI engine can move the beast within its efficient powerband, then it should get great fuel mileage and provide plenty of room under the hood. What size tires do you plan on running and what gear ratio's in the axles? If you have all that data, I could plug it into the spreadsheet I made for my conversion and get you some HP/ MPH / RPM numbers back, if interested.


New, I think the 327 puts out 250-275 HP stock and a healthy amount of torque for a gas motor (340+ foot pounds). If you are used to driving it now, you might want to factor that in to the performance expectations you have when the TDI motor replaces it.


As for transfer case:

https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/nsg370.htm

This mates to 241 and 341 transfer cases. These are not full-time and can not be used on pavement at highway speeds.

I used a NV242 "Select Trac" in my Liberty CRD. It provided 2wd, 4-full time, 4 part-time, and 4-low. Coupled with Tru-Tracs and ESP it was great in the snow, rain, and dirt roads. It was one of the only reliable things about the CRD. It is still not a transfercase for big tires or hard wheelin, as it is a gear driven case. Perfect for your use-case however. It can be shifted between 2wd, 4-full time (on highway), and 4- part time (off road) as long as you are under 45 MPH. 4-low requires it be stopped or moving slowly (less than 5 mph) with the gearbox in neutral.

Apparently you can put this transfer case in if you are stubborn enough:
http://www.jk-forum.com/forums/modified ... -204830/#b
http://www.cherokeetalk.com/forum/f64/n ... p231-3341/
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=949702


I am going with a 4bt swap instead of a 6bt for weight distribution concerns. I want to keep the weight gain down and keep it more balanced front to rear. I don't want 1200 pounds up front digging me into mud. The 820 pounds of the 4bt is still more than I want, but I am putting it as close to the firewall as it is practical and may move the front axle forward. I just don't think a smaller commonly available diesel engine will do for my application (37 inch wheels and 5400 pounds or more).

the 327 is rated at 249/350 (SAE gross) so I imagine you can cut those numbers by 20% at least as this is late '50 tech. add the parasitic loss from the TH400 and power to the rear wheels is even less....I hope. the '67 has a drag coefficient of aprox. .62 so it will take 60hp+/- on level ground to move it at 65mph so the TDI should be able to do the job it won't be a racer by any means but should not be a dog either. I'm looking at the 242 as my choice for T-case at this point it seems to have what I want. Tires will be ~31" tall as I don't want it too tall and I'm looking at ~3.55 gears I want 2,200 rpm @ 65mph to keep it at it's peak torque. The NSG-370's ratios are 4.46/2.61/1.72/1.25/1.00/.84 so keeping in it's torque "sweet spot" through most driving conditions is possible. We have not driven the '67 it had no brakes when we bought it. I'm not sure about the weight distribution but it can't be too good as there is very little in the back half of the vehicle. You will be very happy with the 4BT in yours as far as power goes the one in my F-250 CrewCab is a blast to drive will run up the I-17 grades at 75mph and gets 20mpg@70mph turning 2,000rpm we recently moved and it pulled a 8,000lb trailer with ease and still got just over 16mpg on a 500 mile trip. I would have gone the 4BT route in the Wagoneer if it was for me but the Wife's needs were not in line with it's traits also considered the OM-617 and the Kubota V-2203DI but the TDI came out on top when you look at weight to power output, I have talked to people that have run them in Dakotas, Durango's, XJ's and Explores with favorable results so I hope it will workout well......if it doesn't I plan to pull it and drop it into a Commando and make it my trail rig.
Thanks' for the "reality check" and keeping me realistic on my build it speaks well of the type of people on FSJN I'm glad I joined and will keep you all posted on how this project turns out.

One more "clarification" when I talk about compound turbos for my application I'm looking to build good boost right off the bottom and not a high rpm/high HP "race motor", my goals are ~25 psi by 1600/1800 with them gated to around 30/35 psi max as I want to exploit the torque curve and not the HP curve does this make sense?
Steve.

I was going to put one of the VW Jetta 1.9L motors in my Postal Jeep. Sold that project and the guy went with a 2.5L 5 cyl Audi diesel instead.

Well I've been doing quite a bit or research on part time T cases and have been pointed to the NV 242 as a viable option it has 2WD, full time 4x4, 4x4 high and 4x4 low range the low range is 2.71-1.This case was marketed under the "select trac" badge in jeep vehicles and will bolt up to my NSG-370 sounds like exactly what I was looking for so the hunt is on....more to follow.
Steve.

Your numbers are pretty close to my numbers.

With a coefficient of .65 and weight of 3600 pounds, I am showing for a 72 degree day with no wind:

50 RWHP to hold 65 MPH on the straights ( 59 HP needed at crank assuming 85% driveline efficiency).
73 RWHP to hold 75 MPH on the straights

For the same conditions on a 7% incline:
94 RWHP to hold 65 MPH
123 RWHP to hold 75 MPH


With a 31 inch tire and 3.55 gears it looks like 2101 RPM in 6th gear at 65 MPH and 2425 RPM at 75 MPH. With 32 inch tires and the same diffs you drop to 2036 RPM at 65 and 2349 at 75 MPH. Looks like you will have to keep it to 65 MPH or less for mileage.

With 31 inch tires and 3.2 gears it looks like 1895 at 65 and 2186 at 75 mph.

If you PM an email address I will send my spreadsheet to you (it is in Libre Office Calc, which is downloadable for free) so you can fuss with it and add in your thoughts/ corrections.

My concern would be the power levels of the diesel w/o the boost. Sure, if you keep your foot in-it to spool the turbos it can move that much weight. However, normal city driving may not be enjoyable for your wife as the little motor screams from light to light. And managing the boost with a manual transmission will be tedious. IMO, performance will be terrible w/o +20 lbs of boost. Sorry, for being the Negative Nancy

How are you going to bolt the VW engine to the NSG370? The NSG does not have a removable bell housing, and the VW engine is not even close to the same bolt pattern. Plus its intended for transverse applications only.

My JK has an NSG370 and its a good transmission, and I have owned two Jeeps with NV242s, both were great.

As for vehicle weight, a curb weight waggy is *WAY* more than 3600lbs. My Cherokee was 4900 (+/- 50lbs weighed several times), although it had after market bumpers and roof rack. Change those out and its probably down around 4600.

The VW engine can be made to make more power, but all the ones I have seen end up with a lot of lag. In a heavy vehicle this makes for really poor performance. The gas 327 makes almost all its torque just above idle. The VW will be in upper RPM.

Not saying you cant do it, just dont want you to spend a ton of money and end up with something that is unpleasant to drive.

Rock, with a properly sized set of compounds I can get the desired boost at low rpm's I'm shooting for 20@ 1600 the tdi's peak torque is @~ 2200 so it "should" be possible,I see 20 psi on my 4 bt under load @ 1500 with a he221 I know it's not exactly apples to oranges but it's close the physics of a forced induction diesel do not change very much between 1.9L and 3.8L.I have a buddy on 4bt swaps that is a engineer and turbos are his "thing" and I trust his calcs. and will be willing to invest my time/money on their outcome,if it doesn't pan out the drive train will end up in a Jeepster Commando so it wont be a total loss.
Stuka,I will be making my own adapter there is someone that makes a TDI to Jeep but it's more money than I want to spend.I've been a machinist be trade since 1980 and have a shop at home and am disabled so lot's more time than money so an adapter/motor mounts are nit really a problem.
according to the info I've found the '67 Waggy with the 327/Th400 is 4150Lbs. the 327 tips ths scales at ~700Lbs the Th400 ~250Lbs the TDI ~350 and the NSG 370 ~85Lbs so that is a weight savings of ~550Lbs so 4150 less 550 is 3600Lbs .
I don't think I'm shooting blind here but I realize it is a very unconventional build and do understand and appreciate everyone skepticism,on a side note I know someone that just got a 1991 Dakota 4x4 4 door TDI swap on the roan and he is very happy and reports that it has much more power on the bottom and top end over the factory V6 and it tipped the scales at 4100Lbs in factory trim so his results would lead me to believe that it is doable,he got to the 200 hp goal with a single VNT turbo and with the proper pairing of compounds I "should" be able to get the boost right where I want/need it.

Thanks for keeping me honest/realistic,and as I said before only time will tell.
Steve.

OK guys,
Here is the data from my engineer on compounds for the TDI as it turned out it was quite challenging due to the fact that I live at 5,000' .
The combo he came up with is a Garrett GT 1544 0.34ar turbine housing and a TDO4-13 with a 6cm housing,the TDo4 waste gated ~14psi and the GT 1544 waste gated to ~35psi and the injection pump delivering ~85cc's/1000 shots which should result in a 18:1 A/F ratio so a nice clean tune.This should give ~300 ft/lbs @ 2000rpm and 131HP @ 3000rpm @ 6,000' altitude,so that puts me between the factory straight 6 and V-8 for both HP and TQ.To get more air to this altitude would require compounding with VNT turbos and I think that is over my head at this point.
Who has a Waggy with the straight 6 and how does it do power wise? I think we could live with that power level as it is fairly low in the RPM band and with the 6 speeds gear splits.
Edit:
I looked up performance data between the 6 and 8 for the '67 and are as follows
the 6 - 0-60mph 15.7 seconds and 1/4 mile 20.5@67mph
The 8 - 0-60 9.2 seconds and 1/4 mile 17.2@80mph
Her current winter ride is a 1994 Explorer V-6 with the AOD
it's #'s are 0-60 12.4 and 1/4 mile 18.6@73, But the one she is driving has 200,000 miles and is not quite up to those #'s as it's tired.

What say Y'all?

well the TD04 is gonna be easy to find in the bone yards....but the Garrett 1544 is pricey........oh well every thing can't be cheap/easy. I've been lucky so far in finding components for a fair deal,I'm dealing with overhauling a ZF s-542 for my Ford now and that has been a nightmare so the Waggy will not be started for a while...still need a T case and D-44's with a bit of luck i will start on the Waggy in 2 or 3 months hope to have it running before the winter weather sets in here...............with a bit of luck.

I think you will be ok on the power level's. More would be better, but it should be sufficient and get great mileage.

You are not merging in metro traffic and you are not towing with it.

I think your right,those performance numbers for the wagoneers are for 3 speed manual transmissions designed 50 years ago adding the 6 speed of modern design alone "should" make a huge difference in drive ability.I keep stressing that this is a very unconventional diesel swap and its intended use is different from nearly all other diesel swaps,and i am willing to spend the time and money to see how it plays out as and I am hedging my bet is that if it don't work all it will take is motor/trans mounts to put it in a smaller Jeep package and in a Jeepster it will be a beast! Then a Ford 300ci EFI straight six will go in the Wagoneer from a 4x4 F150 wont be as cool but will do the job and still get good mileage even though the 50/50 weight distribution will be MUCH harder to reach but with time, thought and money ANYTHING is possible! the pairing of turbos for the desired power at the desired rpm's are the key to this project,what my buddy came up with is basically a baby 4BT it will be doing all the work in its sweet spot so should still be reliable and long lived...................I hope.

The 300 six is a torque beast! Just keep it from overheating should you go that way.

<Following this thread to see how the story ends>

Any updates/progress on this? I dd a 01 jetta, i would love to have this engine my J10... Just not sure it is powerful enough.

No updates....yet, we just moved into a new house and it was in the middle of a remodel and it has taken ALL our resources and time.
I plan to start on it this winter,but FWIW I have talked to others that have had success in vehicles that weighed 4,000# with a similar frontal area,my biggest hurdle was that I live at 5,000' and need power for interstate travel as high as 8,000'.I have been given a recipe for a compound turbo 1.9L ALH TDI that will beat the factory L-6 HP/TQ and be close to the V-8's #'s and still weigh at least 500# less.But as I stated earlier in this thread i will not be doing any towing with this rig so i "think" i will be happy.............bear with me and I will post my results as soon as I can.
Steve.

Well I spent the day at work reading about TDI swaps (instead of, you know, working) and I'm liking this idea more and more. A TDI has been swapped into a kj liberty and a crew cab Dakota, both owners did some performance mods and say that the power is more than sufficient.

My 2001 jetta is crap-tastic with a destroyed interior and no AC... But the engine is in perfect condition with only 125k. I just might try this swap sometime soon...