Smog Fail - Timing

[GrandW]

Hi All - With the oil leak fixed, took it to smog and failed, 1 reason being timing.

Per the TSM, removed the distributor vacuum, plugged it. Using a timing light, set it to 12 degrees. Reconnected vacuum. With the vacuum connected, can't see the notch at 12 degrees, which is why it failed smog for that test.

Both the TSM and Haynes manual say that's the right process. Are they doing it wrong at smog, or I do have a bigger issue?

It also failed smog due to high CO and HC, and EVAP leak. Crack in one of the vent hoses between the tank and charcoal canister, which has now been fixed was causing the EVAP leak.

[letank]

either your throttle is slightly opened, or the vacuum control switch is letting some manifold vacuum which will seriousky increase the timing and your idle speed.
you passed smog for the idle speed specs at around 800 or less than 1000rpm...

recheck your power valve plumbing to vacuum manifold... could explain hi HC and hi CO

what are the other numbers, always an indicator

[GrandW]

Thanks Letank.

Plugged this EVAP, then pulled the spark plugs, retorqued, and reset the wires. Best guess is somehow 1 wire wasn't perfectly set and it wasn't sparking. That was causing fuel to be dumped out the exhaust driving CO and HC through the roof. Restarted, reset the timing, reset the idle.

Will be a week before I can retest and report back.

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[GrandW]

Okay, updates as smog shop was out last weekend.

Got the timing worked out, he hadn't clamped the distributor vacuum when testing
EVAP fixed
Emissions are still way high. Think there was a loose spark plug wire on cylinder 8, that wasn't snapped on. Will be another week before able to get tested again.



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[GrandW]

Testing the air pump, and the TSM indicates that some air should go out this bottom tub (white circle) to the catalytic converter. At no point does air ever seem to go out, while air does go out the other tubes on the top. Wonder if this is impacting the emissions.

There is vacuum on the diverter (bypass) valve (green). If it revs, the excess pressure doesn't seem to go out anywhere.

Googling, can't find the diverter (bypass) valve anywhere. TSM says to replace it. Anyone have some hints on another name or where to find one?

[tgreese]

The diverter valve is sometimes called the burp valve or anti-backfire valve. I understood its purpose is to cut air injection at high vacuum, ie deceleration.

I suspect you can't find the replacement part because it is no longer available (NLA). Look in the parts books at www.oljeep.com for a Jeep part number, and see if you can find it by "Jeep" plus that number. It's also possible that you can find a work-alike from another mfr that you can make work. Additionally, there are new-design catalytic convertors that do not require air injection. One of these should continue to work even if your air injection is not functioning.

[tgreese]

Part number is 53002380. Only listing I found says "discontinued." Jeep calls it a "control valve."
Figure 25-300 here: https://oljeep.com/parts_man/88j.pdf

[GrandW]

Part number is 53002380. Only listing I found says "discontinued." Jeep calls it a "control valve."
Figure 25-300 here: https://oljeep.com/parts_man/88j.pdf

Awesome, thanks Tim! Leveraging that to spur more googling, appears to come in multiple forms.

Seems to come as the below, but all out of production.
STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS DV54
Motorcraft CX-921
And was used in Ford's as various part numbers including: E43Z9F491C
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=45956

Has anybody had success using 2 individual ones?

[letank]

looking at your numbers, I suspect too much gas HC and incomplete burn of that excess gas: recheck that power valve 1) is attached directly to vacuum manifold 2) that power valve is not leaking: if you disconnect the power valve hose at the bottom of the carb no gas should drip and if you apply vacuum via a vacuum pump no gas should fill the clear hose -yes use a clear hose extension to monitor function-

emission gas graph




and a helper card

[letank]

you can use this calculator for checking your lambda factor, this is a california site

https://smogstats.com/Lambda_CAT.aspx

[GrandW]

Looks like the power valve needs be replaced along with the catalytic convertor, per the mechanic. Having them replace the power valve and tune it, since tuning it is out of my scope.

Question is on the cat. Napa brand has them at $300-400, versus Maganaflow at $600+. Any difference? Googling, people claim cheaper ones have less precious metals. Would think to make it work, it has the right amount or not. Any experience with Napa brand parts? Don't want to weld into place and then fail.

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[letank]

cat need to be California specs with big numbers and letters facing doing, so the smog tech can read the certification numbers! Cal cat are more expensive .

did the SMOG tech said new cat? if yes, and you spend over $500 total (that was in 2012 on my honda, I had to order it from Texas) you get a 2 year exemption if you fail!


Call the BAR to ask about the certified cat for cal https://www.bar.ca.gov/Consumer/

[GrandW]

Okay, great. Yes, Cat shows approved on the ARB website and yes, certified smog repair shop said new cat and power valve were needed. Will get the new cat and hopefully be smog compliant by the weekend

Thanks!

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[babywag]

Looks like the power valve needs be replaced along with the catalytic convertor, per the mechanic. Having them replace the power valve and tune it, since tuning it is out of my scope.

Question is on the cat. Napa brand has them at $300-400, versus Maganaflow at $600+. Any difference? Googling, people claim cheaper ones have less precious metals. Would think to make it work, it has the right amount or not. Any experience with Napa brand parts? Don't want to weld into place and then fail.

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that's insane!
get the universal pre obdii CARB compliant magnaflow for like $200.
Must be CARB compliant one not federal EPA one.
100% legal in CA...my 90 needed one few years ago

[letank]

ouch...
Magnaflow 3391470 | Jeep | Cherokee/CJ5/CJ7/Grand Wagoneer/J10/J20/Wagoneer | 5L, 5.9L | Direct-Fit California Legal Catalytic Converter OBDII | EO D-193-132
($864.63) new sale price: $668.13

Best guess, that new power valve , correctly connected to intake manifold vacuum would drop the CO and HC

otherwise ebay has universal calif specs for the $200 range, pick the right exhaust diameter for our riggs

Post Edit: thank you Tony, I could not remember our exhaust pipe size, see below

I did the same for one of the kids Honda, got one on ebay... for $80 instead of $300.

[babywag]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnaflow-3390 ... 2265968744

Again...no need for the insanely expensive direct-fit ripoff city converter.

[GrandW]

Good news! Got the cat welded in and carb tuned with the new power valve... and passed smog.

Big step towards getting fully registered. As always, thanks for the input.

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[tgreese]

Woohoo!

[letank]

cheers to you , and good news for the Cal people, no need to spend $600, Thank you Tony...

This is the Walker® 80902 - CalCat™ Universal Fit Large Oval Body Catalytic Converter, Listed on the first search at $236.xx

[candymancan]

Walker stuff rusts really badly. Especially on the east coast in humid snd rainy areas. Tailpipes and mufflers dont last but 2 years tops.

I spent like 100$ on my magnaflow buts non carb compliant I got 75 for my original one at a metal recycler as well.. so i paid only 25$ outa pocket. Sucks you guys needs carb compliant ones over there lol thats insaine how much the magnaflow one is