Planning a 360 motor build (1st fire and break in DONE!!!)

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dodgerammit
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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (parts gathering phase)

Post by dodgerammit »

ARGH! Received my summit order. Only one of each valve. Double checked slip. One of each valve. I know I had issues getting the website to take "8" in the quantity area on both, but was sure I had succeeded.

Double check receipt I had saved from the order screen. Nope. Looks like I was foiled. Stupid site had once again changed number back to "1" on me without me catching it the last time. What is it with these glitchy sites?

Went back to order 7 more of each. Now, only 6 more intake valves are in stock. One would be back ordered. Dang it! Order 1 more intake and 7 more exhaust. Get free shipping that way.

Check with Jegs. In stock, according to site. Order valves at higher price so I won't have to wait 3 weeks for them to arrive. Complete order with some expansion plugs to get free shipping. Find out, they also charge tax where Summit doesn't. :x

Check order status this morning. Jegs is sending everything but valves. WTF! Check with site. Valves are backordered. ARGH!

Call them. 3 weeks out. F'n hell. Idiocracy and people failing to do their job really is a pet peeve of mine. Why list in stock and ready to ship then? :banghead:

Still waiting on my intake. Bought from ebay seller. Turns out, they are just a distributor. Didn't have them in stock either. The Performer EGR manifolds are on back order till the end of the month from Edelbrock. This goes with any place that lists them.

Bulltear will be a few more weeks on their legend Valve covers. I knew this going in, though. Sweet sale price on a sweet look I couldn't pass up. I can always (hopefully) get a cheapie set from scummit or jigs if they are still too far out for the assembly time.

Just ranting. Between morons at work F'n everything up and idiots running websites, and idiots in general, I'd like to pour some arsenic in the gene pool.

Still doesn't really change anything. I can drop the Jeep and parts I have off this weekend. It'll be 2-3 weeks before the guy can get to it anyway. Then, probably another couple of weeks before he needs the valves and intake.

Another $103 to summit to get the number of valves I needed.
Another $115 to Jegs to rape me while I wait. :(

Total now at $2702.50
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

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babywag
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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (parts gathering phase)

Post by babywag »

Jegs has always price matched why pay more?
It's right on every page just paste link to lower price and done.
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)
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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (parts gathering phase)

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babywag wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:15 am Jegs has always price matched why pay more?
It's right on every page just paste link to lower price and done.
Guess in my frustration I didn't even see. Oh well. Not a huge chunk extra.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (parts gathering phase)

Post by dodgerammit »

Update. Jeep is finally in the shop. The guy stays covered up. And he doesn't advertise. Guess that is a good sign. With the Jeep behind lock and key, I've dropped off the more expensive items.

Also, in case I failed to mention, the Edelbrock timing set oil slot did NOT line up with the oil hole in cam. I've made the mod to the cam side sprocket.
It was reviewed as lining up.
CHECK YOUR TIMING SETS!!!!!!!

Bulltear valve covers have came in and now are sporting a nice semigloss black mimicking the classic style black/aluminum finned air cleaner from Edelbrock.

Looking at head gaskets trying to decide which to go with MLS from Cometic or the edelbrock composite style. Cometic offers the .040 thickness which would give perfect quench with a zero deck block. The Edelbrock set is .045 thick.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

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rockosocko
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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (parts gathering phase)

Post by rockosocko »

WOW.. That's a LOT of planning for maybe 100 more hp (maybe)
Don't know your budget but could've just got a Golen Short block and Edelbrock top end kit (with fuel injection!!) "up to 430hp"
Or just one of his long blocks and Fitech injection and be done.

What kind of time frame is 'the Guy' giving you for the job to be finished?
Does HE break in the motor?
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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (parts gathering phase)

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With AMCs especially, and with any engine, a lot of planning goes into getting what you want. Just spending money on shiny or name brand parts isn't the best way to go. Pick the cam first after deciding how you need to use the motor. I am following a proven recipe on the AMC block for what I'm after.
I'm not after HP. Read my thread again.
I also am not interested in efi on this rig.
I have done a boneyard efi conversion on a Dodge rig several years ago.
Efi doesn't change the economy like everyone thinks it does. It improves driveability. This new carb will do the same.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (parts gathering phase)

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Update. Long overdue.

Ended up cancelling the Ebay order for the intake. They couldn't give me a straight answer and always gave the same cop-out verbatim reply.

Intake from Summit was $384 Difference of $70.

Ordered .030 over Wiseco -21cc pistons. $492 (gotta love that summit promo code). Saved me on tax.

Also ordered rocker studs @ $45.

Total for engine parts thus far is at $3309.50


In the absence of me posting on this thread, the builder has pulled the engine and trans, tore down the motor.
Discovered a previous hack/half-@$$ repair of a spun connecting rod bearing (crank replaced, rod left to slightly mar new crank)

Got in touch with a fellow on the AMC forum that had an extra connecting rod.
Offered to pay him for it.
He sent it to me for free!
It checked out fine visually.

Block bored to .030 over. The block had ridges like any iron block. No super durable AMC high nickle discovery here.
This leads me to believe that the high-nickle blocks probably weren't a common thing. If you actually had a high-nickle block, or a block that didn't need a bore, you just got a lucky batch (or have a really low-mileage block). Mine was 160K.

Now, the entire rotating assembly, along with balancer and flexplate are being weighed and balance. The guy doing it is slow (according to the guy that was at the shop sales counter. He then said the one turning the cranks is 80 years old). Welp. I know my stuff is in good hands.

While I wait for them to finish that, My builder is gonna do the trans rebuild.

So, lets add the transmission stuff up:

Hughes 503FUEL convertor for the 727 (non-lock up, 1200rpm stall, designed for economy and towing) $310
Transgo TF-1 shift kit-$60
B&M deep pan $197
PAK-T rebuild kit with everything $211
Still will be adding an auxiliary cooler yet....

Total for trans parts: $468

Cheers!
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (parts gathering phase)

Post by dodgerammit »

Balance job done. Will pick up rotating assembly tomorrow. $611

While waiting on that, I've been rehabbing oil pump/timing cover. Oil pressure bypass plug wis stuck hard inside filter adapter. Ordered another from Bulltear $82 including shipping. Bonus is that it is new part with oil filter bypass eliminated like the 87-up Chrysler redesign.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (parts gathering phase)

Post by Lincoln7 »

Sounds like good progress! Just a heads up: I installed that B&M deep transmission pan and I had to notch the transmission crossmember a little. Approximately a 10" x 2" piece. It both created clearance for the pan (mostly for installing/removing it) and allowed access to the bolts to tighten it down.

I rebuilt my oil pump recently and my bypass plug was also pretty stuck. I was able to free it up and then eject it with compressed air lol.

With those -21cc pistons, how does that affect your compression ratio? I don't know what relief the stock piston had.
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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (parts gathering phase)

Post by dodgerammit »

Good to know!

I did later find a crown model for about $36. Bulltear probably is the crown version, but they have machined it dead flat to ensure no oil pressure issues.


Stock pistons were a bit more, but still under 30cc. With wiseco pistons, decking the block to just true it, along with the head gasket, compression should be right at 9:1. Factory is 8.25ish.

The dynamic compression is nice due to the cam. It'll be right at the low end of the sweet spot at 7.5:1.

This should allow me to safely run 87.

My reasoning is because I only run non-ethanol, and finding non-ethanol on the road that is 89, 91, or 93 is more miss than hit. I can easily find 87.

If I used the 8cc pistons, my static compression would be 9.8:1, but due to the cam profile, the dynamic would be right around 9:1. Way too high for even 93.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (parts gathering phase)

Post by Lincoln7 »

Awesome you've done your homework! Will definitely pay off in smiles per gallon
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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (parts gathering phase)

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Picked up the rotating assembly from machine shop today and dropped it off at mechanics shop.
Ordered Cometic Head gaskets. MLS 4.14 hole .040 thickness. $200
Auxiliary transmission cooler, an EGR valve, and 2 oil filters from Summit $115

Also have ordered some goodies from BJ's off road. Doug Thorley Tri Y ceramic coated headers and 3" single exit exhaust system.
Yeah, I didn't have to, but the headers are designed for low-midrange torque, which is what I'm focused on for this build.
A nice 3" system will only compliment everything nicely.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (parts gathering phase)

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New filter housing from Bulltear arrived today. Test fit the new plunger. It was a bit sticky, so I gave it a crosshatch with some 400 grit. Made it a bit looser.

The ones from Bulltear are all 87-later style with no filter bypass.

Flipped the little bypass holder to allow flush fit and space the original threaded filter attachment to sit at the same height. Lubed the plunger with vaseline. Made sure the plunger slid even easier. Then scuffed the new gears to knock off any burrs. Packed them in the new housing with vaseline and buttoned it up. Gears are able to move without binding.

Already had measured the tolerances with the old filter housing and midplate. Less than .002 between tooth and housing cavity. between .003 and .005 midplate to gears with filter housing torqued to 55 in/lbs.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (parts gathering phase)

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Fresh head gaskets arrived today. Dropped them off at shop. He has decked the block and begun assembly.

I have the oil pan for some paint work. Rustoleum black will compliment the valve covers.

Engine paint ordered. Eastwood AMC metallic blue 2 part.

Headers are on the way.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (Getting Close!!!!!)

Post by dodgerammit »

Teaser pic

Image
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (GETTING CLOSE!!!)

Post by dodgerammit »

Ordered an AFE afr kit with a Bosch 4.9 LSU wideband O2. Between that and a vacuum gauge, I should be able to dial the motor in nicely. Will have the bung installed into the 3" BJ's system immediately following the headers.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (GETTING CLOSE!!!)

Post by Lincoln7 »

Engine looks great! Nice color choice
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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (GETTING CLOSE!!!)

Post by dodgerammit »

Thanks! I wanted it to pop against the red engine bay. Black was original, but AMC blue looks so much better.
The black and silver accents really set it off. Ceramic coated Tri-Y headers will round it out nicely.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (GETTING CLOSE!!!)

Post by yz400e »

The engine looks great. I really like the way the black paint came out on the valve covers.
in your write up, you jumped around between cams a lot. what made you finally settle on the Engle ?
Also, did you install the oil baffle on the underside of the intake manifold or leave it off?
thanks,
mark
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Re: Planning a 360 motor build (GETTING CLOSE!!!)

Post by dodgerammit »

yz400e wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 5:17 pm The engine looks great. I really like the way the black paint came out on the valve covers.
in your write up, you jumped around between cams a lot. what made you finally settle on the Engle ?
Also, did you install the oil baffle on the underside of the intake manifold or leave it off?
thanks,
mark
The Engle decision came from a few different reasons. First, they are speced for AMC with .904 lifters.
They also have appropriate width cam lobes for the larger lifters.
Third, they are popular with Wagoneer owners who have built their 360 for similar purposes. (bulltear forum has a couple of posts, as does pirate)
I like tried and true with satisfied customer reviews.

Yes, I used both the valley pan and oil baffle with new intake. I spent lots of time with the engine builder carefully making sure to be proactive in addressing the trouble areas.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

92 Wrangler Islander 4.0/32RH/231 D30/D35 RHD
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