AW4 Swap NP229

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89_Wagon
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AW4 Swap NP229

Post by 89_Wagon »

I have a thread on another board about an aw4 swap, but I'm looking for some input from this board as well. Later, I'll update this thread with where I'm at so far. But I have most of the parts yet still some questions.

1. Will I need to modify the drive shafts with the aw4/NP229 combo?

Thanks!





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Stuka
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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by Stuka »

Would need to know what you currently have in order to answer that.

BTW, welcome to the forum.
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Cecil14
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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by Cecil14 »

You should assume yes, at this point. If you have all the pieces, you can measure both setups and get a good estimate of differences for driveshafts, though.
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Spirit_of_61
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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by Spirit_of_61 »

I would like to do this as well. How are going to control the transmission? Winter's shifter kit? Behind a 360, What do have to do to the flywheel?

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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by 89_Wagon »

This is going behind an 89 Grand Wagoneer. I plan to use the stock transmission control and harness. Also I will somehow attach the shift linkage to the column shifter.

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rocklaurence
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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by rocklaurence »

Why not add a NV231? If you go with the 229 youll need a 7/8" spacer and its a much older model of Tcase
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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by Stuka »

89_Wagon wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:04 am This is going behind an 89 Grand Wagoneer. I plan to use the stock transmission control and harness. Also I will somehow attach the shift linkage to the column shifter.

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The stock harness for the AW4 was controlled by the engines ECU. Are you also swapping in the 4.0L that was in front of it? A carb'ed 360 won't have the slightest clue what to do with an AW4.
rocklaurence wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:20 am Why not add a NV231? If you go with the 229 youll need a 7/8" spacer and its a much older model of Tcase
The 231 has a slip yoke and no AWD. The base design isn't any more advanced, the 231 is a slightly downsized NP208, which was the basis for the 229.
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89_Wagon
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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by 89_Wagon »

Common misconception, but the AW4 was controlled by a separate control unit, separate from the engine ecu. However, the wiring is integrated into the engine harness so it needs to be carved out, which I've already done.

From what I've read, there are 2 types of transmission control systems.. Renix and aisini.

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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by 89_Wagon »

Here's a link to the other thread I have going.
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=187654

I chose the NP229 for a few reasons.
1. It came with the FSJ so all the shift linkages and what not will not to be changed much if at all. So,helps keep the swap a bit more simple.
2. I like the full time nature of it... it's good on snowy roads where I live.
3. My AW4 did not come with a transfer case so buying an adapter was a cheaper option. I got in on Ebay for $80.... 7/8 thick.

As far as the flexplate, I'm considering using the stock 360. That requires a spacer(s) and drilling new holes. Not sure how confident I can get those holes right.... but if i did that would save me $125 in parts (starter & flexplate) + machining. The other option is using the 4.0 flexplate, balancing it like the 360, and then using the 4.0 stater.

I don't have a parts car, so I'm piecing this together.

I have some more questions.. hoping you guys can help.

1. I have a combo flip/clocking ring to fill the 7/8 gap between the AW4 and NP229. But, I'm thinking the tcase and transmission will be sharing the same bolt holes?

2. Any recommendations on an oil cooler size? My stock unit is falling apart.

Thanks!
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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by derf »

To answer your original question, if you keep the engine in the same place, it's likely you will need to modify driveshafts. The AW4 is longer and that moves the transfer case.

Modifying a driveshaft is no big deal. Depending on where you are, you can find a good shop that can do the work. Most medium to major metro areas will have a drivetrain shop somewhere in or near town. Worst case is that you have to send it somewhere or buy a new replacement from some place like Adams or Tom Woods.
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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by derf »

Stuka wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:35 am The 231 has a slip yoke and no AWD. The base design isn't any more advanced, the 231 is a slightly downsized NP208, which was the basis for the 229.
The 231 is an evolution of the 207, which was the little brother of the 208 and was used in early YJ and XJ Jeeps. The 208 evolved into the 241.
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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by Stuka »

derf wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:09 am
Stuka wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:35 am The 231 has a slip yoke and no AWD. The base design isn't any more advanced, the 231 is a slightly downsized NP208, which was the basis for the 229.
The 231 is an evolution of the 207, which was the little brother of the 208 and was used in early YJ and XJ Jeeps. The 208 evolved into the 241.
Yeah I only used the 208 for reference as it was a factory FSJ t-case. 207 and 208 are very similar, with the 207 just using smaller components.
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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by derf »

Stuka wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:19 am
derf wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:09 am
Stuka wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:35 am The 231 has a slip yoke and no AWD. The base design isn't any more advanced, the 231 is a slightly downsized NP208, which was the basis for the 229.
The 231 is an evolution of the 207, which was the little brother of the 208 and was used in early YJ and XJ Jeeps. The 208 evolved into the 241.
Yeah I only used the 208 for reference as it was a factory FSJ t-case. 207 and 208 are very similar, with the 207 just using smaller components.
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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by 89_Wagon »

derf wrote: Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:06 am To answer your original question, if you keep the engine in the same place, it's likely you will need to modify driveshafts. The AW4 is longer and that moves the transfer case.

Modifying a driveshaft is no big deal. Depending on where you are, you can find a good shop that can do the work. Most medium to major metro areas will have a drivetrain shop somewhere in or near town. Worst case is that you have to send it somewhere or buy a new replacement from some place like Adams or Tom Woods.
Thanks for the help! The Adams and Woods DS look nice... a bit overkill for my needs but a good option and I'll probably go with them if a stock driveshaft doesn't meet my needs. I use this as a fun family car... no off-roading.

I've read this combo (360/AW4/NP229) moves the transfer case about 4 inches back. Stock driveshaft lengths are..

Rear ~38"
Front ~27"

This is a stock suspension setup. If the transfer case moves back 4 inches, I'm estimating this for driveshaft lengths. Hopefully there's a stock option for these. Rounding them to 34" and 31" will hopefully do. I will measure when the AW4 is in before I pull the gun on a purchase.

Does this seem reasonable for new DS lengths? Kinda surprised is close to 4" in either direction.... maybe because to angle is so low.

Rear ~ 34.2"
Front ~30.6"
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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by derf »

89_Wagon wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:24 amThanks for the help! The Adams and Woods DS look nice... a bit overkill for my needs but a good option and I'll probably go with them if a stock driveshaft doesn't meet my needs. I use this as a fun family car... no off-roading.

I've read this combo (360/AW4/NP229) moves the transfer case about 4 inches back. Stock driveshaft lengths are..

Rear ~38"
Front ~27"

This is a stock suspension setup. If the transfer case moves back 4 inches, I'm estimating this for driveshaft lengths. Hopefully there's a stock option for these. Rounding them to 34" and 31" will hopefully do. I will measure when the AW4 is in before I pull the gun on a purchase.

Does this seem reasonable for new DS lengths? Kinda surprised is close to 4" in either direction.... maybe because to angle is so low.

Rear ~ 34.2"
Front ~30.6"
Sounds close. But it's best to get the whole setup installed in the Jeep. That way you can measure from yoke to yoke as it sits in the vehicle on the ground. With that number, you can get exactly what you need.

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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by 89_Wagon »

Dropped the a727 and np229 and am prepping aw4 for install. I hit a snag though. I broke the end of the manual valve shaft and cannot find the part anywhere. Sucker snapped pretty easily. I could tack the shifter arm on but would rather replace it, even though it involves dropping the valvebody. Any idea where I can find that part?



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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by rocklaurence »

Who's going to rebuild your AW4 before installation? I've done some reading on improving the AW4 and there isnt much support for them and they are expensive to get rebuilt. What have you found?
Last edited by rocklaurence on Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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89_Wagon
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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by 89_Wagon »

rocklaurence wrote:Who's going to rebuild your AW$ before installation? I've done some reading on improving the AW4 and there isnt much support for them and they are expensive to get rebuilt. What have you found?
I was hoping to drop it in without a rebuild and gamble it based on it's reputation and the word of the seller. I haven't been looking at shops, just parts. It's related to the Toyota A340, which is used in Supras but I don't know about part interchangebility. Worse comes to worse, I might just buy another aw4. They are cheap and plentiful where I live. This is not an offroad rig so I'm not looking for huge strength. A stock AW4 is just fine for me. I did find something at Oregon Performance that looks like an upgrade kit.

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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by rocklaurence »

When I was looking NAXJ [North American XJ] has some info on them. They also mention some kits with extra steels/clutches:
https://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1053970

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89_Wagon
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Re: AW4 Swap NP229

Post by 89_Wagon »

It's a good post with tons of info and it's been very helpful so far with the swap. We'll see how the stock aw4 holds up but an option would be to buy another aw4 and rebuild that.

I can't find the part anywhere so I'm just going to tack it on.

Another question. I had to seat the torque converter. It's definitely grabbing the pump but there's a slight rub on the back of the converter against the bell housing. Is this a bad sign or is it just not seated all the way? Will bolting it to the flexplate straighten it out? There was no play on the input shaft.
EDIT: I should have mentioned, I had the transmission vertical.

Here's my other swap thread
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=187654
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