4.10 Gear - Carrier Suggestions? *NOOB*

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FSJRomanGladiator
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Re: 4.10 Gear - Carrier Suggestions? *NOOB*

Post by FSJRomanGladiator »

@Stuka - i received both free. Just paid for the ride. So sounds like wasted money. I guess I am just confused on the parts I need and don’t need. Gearing I do not have a grasp - in perspective of parts. Math side comes easier. Those Yukon gears you were mentioning - no idea where to start. Sometimes feel more confused then when I started lol

Ie. Do I need a carrier for front and rear pumpkin? Do I need to have exact gearing ratio for both. If not, what is my net %? What is thick tooth and why would I consider it or not? Can I mix thick and - non thick???


@will e thanks bud. Party is getting crazy for me haha. I need to get a hold on what bearing components. I appreciate your words in the thread. To answer your question, I just want to remove my welded gears and while I have it open - put better gears in there. Want the truck to have gears that allow me keep up with modern vehicles but powerful enough to act like a truck. Prob most people - do this the smartest way but not spend a crazy amount. If there are components that make an install easier - I am for it!

I do mostly everything myself. The good Lord gave me a brain so I can learn and complete myself. Let’s get the hands dirty! So let’s learn and get it down. My philosophy.

Thanks again y’all.


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'15 Grand Cherokee 4X4 - Altitude - Blacked Out
'74 J10 - (restoring) 383 Stroker; TH400 Trans, Dana 44's 4.10 gear, Dana 20 TC. 4" Lift from Skyjacker;

Location: NE Georgia

KJ Ryu
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Location: Casper

Re: 4.10 Gear - Carrier Suggestions? *NOOB*

Post by KJ Ryu »

Watch some youtube videos and read a bunch. I've never setup any but, I've learned enough that I can do it. Eventually my crawler is going to need lower gears and I'm like you; if I can do it myself, I'll learn how, somehow!
Ron

2005 KJ, Hit-n-Run, 2am 6-17-2012, Totaled. :mad:
1977 SJ J10, 4v360, T18, D20, 37x14s, SOA & SF on tons, still ugly.
1978 SJ Wagoneer, 4v360, QT, 33x12.5s, lift by Sawzall :-bd NOT Running :(
1977 SJ J10, SniperEFI 401, QT, D44s, 31X10.5s :fsj:
2006 KJ
Mars wrote:One man's trans leak is another's penetrating oil :D
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FSJRomanGladiator
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Re: 4.10 Gear - Carrier Suggestions? *NOOB*

Post by FSJRomanGladiator »

KJ Ryu wrote:Watch some youtube videos and read a bunch. I've never setup any but, I've learned enough that I can do it. Eventually my crawler is going to need lower gears and I'm like you; if I can do it myself, I'll learn how, somehow!

Thanks KJ! No doubt. Man if I could tell you everything I have learned from what you suggested - it would take a while hahaha

I hear so many opinions on mixing and not. I guess I am in the weeds at the moment.


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'15 Grand Cherokee 4X4 - Altitude - Blacked Out
'74 J10 - (restoring) 383 Stroker; TH400 Trans, Dana 44's 4.10 gear, Dana 20 TC. 4" Lift from Skyjacker;

Location: NE Georgia

KJ Ryu
Posts: 993
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:03 am
Location: Casper

Re: 4.10 Gear - Carrier Suggestions? *NOOB*

Post by KJ Ryu »

Oh, forgot to mention: I'd put the 4.09 set in the front. For most off-roading, it will help with turning if your front axle has that little bit of extra wheel speed. Install what you have and send it.
Ron

2005 KJ, Hit-n-Run, 2am 6-17-2012, Totaled. :mad:
1977 SJ J10, 4v360, T18, D20, 37x14s, SOA & SF on tons, still ugly.
1978 SJ Wagoneer, 4v360, QT, 33x12.5s, lift by Sawzall :-bd NOT Running :(
1977 SJ J10, SniperEFI 401, QT, D44s, 31X10.5s :fsj:
2006 KJ
Mars wrote:One man's trans leak is another's penetrating oil :D
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FSJRomanGladiator
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:08 am
Location: NE Georgia

Re: 4.10 Gear - Carrier Suggestions? *NOOB*

Post by FSJRomanGladiator »

That makes sense and thanks again.

What is your setup?




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'15 Grand Cherokee 4X4 - Altitude - Blacked Out
'74 J10 - (restoring) 383 Stroker; TH400 Trans, Dana 44's 4.10 gear, Dana 20 TC. 4" Lift from Skyjacker;

Location: NE Georgia

KJ Ryu
Posts: 993
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:03 am
Location: Casper

Re: 4.10 Gear - Carrier Suggestions? *NOOB*

Post by KJ Ryu »

I currently have 4.10 gears and 37" tires. Front axle from a 91.5 Dodge dually. Rear from a 87 Chevy van; both 1-ton, 8 lug. If it weren't for having a T18 manual trans, it wouldn't work. Eventually, I want to install 5.13:1 gears so I can run bigger tires.
Ron

2005 KJ, Hit-n-Run, 2am 6-17-2012, Totaled. :mad:
1977 SJ J10, 4v360, T18, D20, 37x14s, SOA & SF on tons, still ugly.
1978 SJ Wagoneer, 4v360, QT, 33x12.5s, lift by Sawzall :-bd NOT Running :(
1977 SJ J10, SniperEFI 401, QT, D44s, 31X10.5s :fsj:
2006 KJ
Mars wrote:One man's trans leak is another's penetrating oil :D
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FSJRomanGladiator
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:08 am
Location: NE Georgia

Re: 4.10 Gear - Carrier Suggestions? *NOOB*

Post by FSJRomanGladiator »

KJ Ryu wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:11 am I currently have 4.10 gears and 37" tires. Front axle from a 91.5 Dodge dually. Rear from a 87 Chevy van; both 1-ton, 8 lug. If it weren't for having a T18 manual trans, it wouldn't work. Eventually, I want to install 5.13:1 gears so I can run bigger tires.
:-bd :fsj:

Very Nice!
'15 Grand Cherokee 4X4 - Altitude - Blacked Out
'74 J10 - (restoring) 383 Stroker; TH400 Trans, Dana 44's 4.10 gear, Dana 20 TC. 4" Lift from Skyjacker;

Location: NE Georgia
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Stuka
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Re: 4.10 Gear - Carrier Suggestions? *NOOB*

Post by Stuka »

FSJRomanGladiator wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:45 pm @Stuka - i received both free. Just paid for the ride. So sounds like wasted money. I guess I am just confused on the parts I need and don’t need. Gearing I do not have a grasp - in perspective of parts. Math side comes easier. Those Yukon gears you were mentioning - no idea where to start. Sometimes feel more confused then when I started lol

Ie. Do I need a carrier for front and rear pumpkin? Do I need to have exact gearing ratio for both. If not, what is my net %? What is thick tooth and why would I consider it or not? Can I mix thick and - non thick???
Ok, so here is a question. Are you going to try and install them yourself, or have a shop do them?

The TJ gears are "thick" so they work on 2.73-3.73 carriers. But they use different bolts than our D44's do (They are larger and metric). Which is why you would have to drill out your carrier a bit.

If you are having a shop do it, you can just tell them what you want and they can handle everything.

At a minimum, you need:
  • Ring and Pinion
  • Carrier to work for that ratio (Yukon has thick gear sets so you wont need a different carrier unless you want an locker)
  • Master Install kit (heas bearings, shims, and seals
  • New differential cover gasket
  • Gear Marking compound
  • A press (It can be done without one, but you only get one shot to be right)
  • A case spreader is nice, but not entirely required
  • Inch pound torque wrench with a dial to measure pre-load
  • Big torque wrench
  • Plenty of regular tools
  • And I most likely forgot something
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ
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FSJRomanGladiator
Posts: 98
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Location: NE Georgia

Re: 4.10 Gear - Carrier Suggestions? *NOOB*

Post by FSJRomanGladiator »

Stuka wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:00 am
FSJRomanGladiator wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:45 pm @Stuka - i received both free. Just paid for the ride. So sounds like wasted money. I guess I am just confused on the parts I need and don’t need. Gearing I do not have a grasp - in perspective of parts. Math side comes easier. Those Yukon gears you were mentioning - no idea where to start. Sometimes feel more confused then when I started lol

Ie. Do I need a carrier for front and rear pumpkin? Do I need to have exact gearing ratio for both. If not, what is my net %? What is thick tooth and why would I consider it or not? Can I mix thick and - non thick???
Ok, so here is a question. Are you going to try and install them yourself, or have a shop do them?

The TJ gears are "thick" so they work on 2.73-3.73 carriers. But they use different bolts than our D44's do (They are larger and metric). Which is why you would have to drill out your carrier a bit.

If you are having a shop do it, you can just tell them what you want and they can handle everything.

At a minimum, you need:
  • Ring and Pinion
    • Carrier to work for that ratio (Yukon has thick gear sets so you wont need a different carrier unless you want an locker)
      • Master Install kit (heas bearings, shims, and seals
        • New differential cover gasket
        • Gear Marking compound
        • A press (It can be done without one, but you only get one shot to be right)
        • A case spreader is nice, but not entirely required
        • Inch pound torque wrench with a dial to measure pre-load
        • Big torque wrench
        • Plenty of regular tools
        • And I most likely forgot something

first i have to say thank you for taking the time out and listing these items. I truly want to do it myself but might have a shop do it. Time, frustration and new tools might equal labor and getting that call "its done!" while my feet are up on the couch.

That said i did read something this morning regarding carrier breaks. so i the range of gears OEM to where you want to go - can influence if you need a new carrier. I think you were mentioning that above.

So here is where my head is at. Ya'll seen the gears i have obtained (links in a earlier post) and I want to go to a 35 tire - shooting for a skinner actual measure width. It might be a 12.5 but measures more like 10.5 would be awesome. Seen a few. I might just sell these gears and evaluate my situation.

I hate to say this but we started over and suggested what gear i should shoot for. This noob thinks 4.10 gears was the best but i am clearly out of my league on this. So if ya'll had these check box when starring at a rig - what would you recommend?
  • Gen 1 SBC 350 (has mild cam but do not know more than that)
  • Dana 20 Transfer Case - Single Stick - Manual
  • TH400 Trans (NO OVERDRIVE)
  • Dana 44 Front and Rear - (currently 3.54)
  • Have 32x11.50.x14 ( will go to 35's)
  • Would like this truck to RUN like a DD. It will not be one but if i want putz around town, go offroad to fish/hunt - I can.
  • MPG would be nice to keep as it is pretty bad but not the determining factor.
  • Quick in local driving and can take on hwy for a few exits (not across country or anything)
Not sure if I can obtain gears with these asks but I figured ya'll are the ones would know. Currently my setup feels like my son can beat me to 40mph on a pitbike.

thanks as always.
'15 Grand Cherokee 4X4 - Altitude - Blacked Out
'74 J10 - (restoring) 383 Stroker; TH400 Trans, Dana 44's 4.10 gear, Dana 20 TC. 4" Lift from Skyjacker;

Location: NE Georgia
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Stuka
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Re: 4.10 Gear - Carrier Suggestions? *NOOB*

Post by Stuka »

4.10's would be the better daily driver gear. And it would be slightly lower than what you have with 3.54's and 32's (assuming your stock gears are 3.54's, very few J-Trucks got 3.07's).

For non-overdrive with 35's, I think 4.28's are kind of the sweet spot. You would be roughly 250rpm higher on the HWY with 4.28 and 35's than you are with 3.54 and 32's.

In my J10, I have 4.56 with 33's, but thats with an i6. It is not a HWY cruiser, but is good for up in the hills where I live where most speed limits are 55 and lower.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ
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FSJRomanGladiator
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Re: 4.10 Gear - Carrier Suggestions? *NOOB*

Post by FSJRomanGladiator »

Stuka wrote:4.10's would be the better daily driver gear. And it would be slightly lower than what you have with 3.54's and 32's (assuming your stock gears are 3.54's, very few J-Trucks got 3.07's).

For non-overdrive with 35's, I think 4.28's are kind of the sweet spot. You would be roughly 250rpm higher on the HWY with 4.28 and 35's than you are with 3.54 and 32's.

In my J10, I have 4.56 with 33's, but thats with an i6. It is not a HWY cruiser, but is good for up in the hills where I live where most speed limits are 55 and lower.
This response feels like I just received the golden ticket in Willy Wonka. Image


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'15 Grand Cherokee 4X4 - Altitude - Blacked Out
'74 J10 - (restoring) 383 Stroker; TH400 Trans, Dana 44's 4.10 gear, Dana 20 TC. 4" Lift from Skyjacker;

Location: NE Georgia
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tgreese
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Re: 4.10 Gear - Carrier Suggestions? *NOOB*

Post by tgreese »

Realize that these trucks, in the '60s, typically came with 4.88s and sported the much shorter factory tires. Modern drivers both drive faster on the highway today and are unaccustomed to the engine and tire noise that that era's drivers would have found acceptable.

Look at the speed and RPM associated with the ratio and tire height you want. http://novak-adapt.com/knowledge/gearing/

For example, 35s with 4.56 gears at 70 mph is 3064 RPM. This is actually fine for the engine and driveline, but you may object to the cabin noise. 4.88s at 60 would be 2810. With original tires (29s) 3392.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
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Re: 4.10 Gear - Carrier Suggestions? *NOOB*

Post by FSJRomanGladiator »

tgreese wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:25 am Realize that these trucks, in the '60s, typically came with 4.88s and sported the much shorter factory tires. Modern drivers both drive faster on the highway today and are unaccustomed to the engine and tire noise that that era's drivers would have found acceptable.

Look at the speed and RPM associated with the ratio and tire height you want. http://novak-adapt.com/knowledge/gearing/

For example, 35s with 4.56 gears at 70 mph is 3064 RPM. This is actually fine for the engine and driveline, but you may object to the cabin noise. 4.88s at 60 would be 2810. With original tires (29s) 3392.
is possible to get two willy wonka tickets in a week?

Thanks tgreese! Makes sense. I'll have to play with the calculators. I'll be sound dampening the cabin and doing my best to remove the noise. 4.28 and 4.56 are two i have to now investigate. Seems the 4.10's are not going fulfill my need. Great info and thanks guys!
'15 Grand Cherokee 4X4 - Altitude - Blacked Out
'74 J10 - (restoring) 383 Stroker; TH400 Trans, Dana 44's 4.10 gear, Dana 20 TC. 4" Lift from Skyjacker;

Location: NE Georgia
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