'89 Grand Wagoner Distributor Cap

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Topic author
MReno
Posts: 158
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:39 pm

'89 Grand Wagoner Distributor Cap

Post by MReno »

So I am having continual difficulty with trying to get my project GW to run to a point where I can time the engine and tune the carb.

It has a 4 bbl Edlebrock carb (1405) on it that was a mod from the PO. This past weekend I installed a new carb adapter to be sure the seal between the Edlebrock AMC Performance manifold and the carburetor was tight; I inspected and ohm tested all spark plug wires and reconnected wires based on firing order, since I found some that were out of order. I tried starting again and still cannot get the engine to turn over reliably. The carb is getting fuel since I have a new filter and have confirmed the fuel pump operations.

When I use carb starting spray or pour some fuel directly into the carb thru the choke, the engine tries to fire, but just will not seem to run. When I pump gas peddle while engine is choked it almost turns over, but then will eventually blow fire out the carb (since I have the air filter off).

The PO removed much of the emission components, so I have confirmed that many of the ports on the carb are plugged, but not sure how much this would play into getting the engine to turn over. I bought a vacuum tester, but since I cannot get the engine running I cannot use if to test some systems.

Any thoughts on where to go with this, since I am clearly not a mechanic or that familiar with working on carbed engines.

My next step was going to be to pull all plugs (that I replaced with new) to see if there are fouled since I have been repeatedly trying to start engine, indicating an oil issue in the cylinders.... :banghead:
1989 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Newbee to owing an old classic that needs some work, but she runs!

PossumJr
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Location: Eastern NC

Re: '89 Grand Wagoner Distributor Cap

Post by PossumJr »

So when you use starting fluid or are manually fueling the engine, does "tries to fire" mean it actually does start and run (however briefly) or is it simply giving a couple puts before nothing happens? Backfiring through the carb means either a lean condition or timing issues. My first thoughts are: You sure that you have all the wires in the right order (1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2) and #1 wire goes to the #1 terminal on the cap? Any reason to suspect the carb is gummed up and not supplying fuel?
1979 J10, 360/QT

Topic author
MReno
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Re: '89 Grand Wagoner Distributor Cap

Post by MReno »

PossumJr- Tries to fire, means a few puts, but never turns over. I did rebuild the carb, so that should be good and I have a new ICM so that should not be the issue either.

I did check all wires again and they are in the correct order based on the manual. My distributor cap has a #1 on one of the terminals, so I have the #1 cylinder wire running to that, the the other connected in a clockwise fashion per the manual. I'm wondering if my distributor cap is bad?
1989 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Newbee to owing an old classic that needs some work, but she runs!

sirrus
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Re: '89 Grand Wagoner Distributor Cap

Post by sirrus »

Take it off and look at contacts on the cap and rotor. Replacing them if they’re worn is easy and shouldn’t be expensive
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

Topic author
MReno
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Re: '89 Grand Wagoner Distributor Cap

Post by MReno »

I guess I am not sure what to look for that would be an indication of failure or concern that could lead to the issue I am experiencing? I'll take a picture of the inside of the cap and post tomorrow. However a new distributor, rotor and cap is $65, so I am wondering if I should just buy one and install it to see if that corrects the issue?
1989 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Newbee to owing an old classic that needs some work, but she runs!

sirrus
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Re: '89 Grand Wagoner Distributor Cap

Post by sirrus »

I’d start with just a cap and rotor, they are maintenance parts.

No need to replace distributor unless you’re sure it’s failing

UPD: here's a link to youtube video that shows the difference between worn and new cap/rotor. It is from late 90s Honda, but it doesn't matter, they all work the same
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nfXiJnr-7w
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

Topic author
MReno
Posts: 158
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Re: '89 Grand Wagoner Distributor Cap

Post by MReno »

Sirrus,

Thanks for the input and video link. Sounds like I will inspect this closely and replace as needed.
1989 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Newbee to owing an old classic that needs some work, but she runs!

will e
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Re: '89 Grand Wagoner Distributor Cap

Post by will e »

You need to confirm that the rotor is pointing to the #1 terminal when at TDC. The PO might not have even noticed the #1 indicator.
If it points to #1 (or close to it) then this is on the compression stroke. There are a few ways to do this, post up if you want some info on how to confirm you are on the compression stroke.
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge

Topic author
MReno
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Re: '89 Grand Wagoner Distributor Cap

Post by MReno »

will e- Thanks for the reply, I did see in my repair manual that I needed to be sure the engine is at TDC on the compression stroke in order to confirm the rotor is properly aligned. However I will say, not ever having done this, I am a bit hesitant. I'm a better learner from watching rather than reading!
1989 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Newbee to owing an old classic that needs some work, but she runs!

Topic author
MReno
Posts: 158
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:39 pm

Re: '89 Grand Wagoner Distributor Cap

Post by MReno »

After watching a few videos on locating TDC on the compression stroke, I believe based on my symptoms when trying to turn the engine over, my engine may be 180 degrees off! Seeing how I occasionally get fire blowing out of my carburetor with trying to start the engine. Could this be accurate?
1989 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Newbee to owing an old classic that needs some work, but she runs!
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tgreese
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Re: '89 Grand Wagoner Distributor Cap

Post by tgreese »

Well, looking at nothing else, if you line up the timing marks with the pointer on the timing cover, you have a 50-50 chance of being 180 out. This is a 4-stroke engine, and it takes two complete revolutions of the crank to fire every cylinder. The distributor (and camshaft) turn at 1/2 the speed of the crank shaft.

Image

The distributor rotor points to the #1 wire at TDC of the compression stroke. You could just as easily turn the engine 180 out, to TDC of the exhaust stroke, and have the rotor point to the #6 wire. You have to know which cycle you are on before you can start to assign the wires.

I'm kinda lazy about this, and I take the #1 spark plug out, key off and the coil wire removed, and crank the engine with my remote starter switch. When I hear the chuff of air from the spark plug hole, that's compression. I then keep cranking through exhaust and start into the compression stroke, and finish aligning the pointer with a big wrench on the crank.
Last edited by tgreese on Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
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will e
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Re: '89 Grand Wagoner Distributor Cap

Post by will e »

MReno wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:42 pm After watching a few videos on locating TDC on the compression stroke, I believe based on my symptoms when trying to turn the engine over, my engine may be 180 degrees off! Seeing how I occasionally get fire blowing out of my carburetor with trying to start the engine. Could this be accurate?
Yes, and what you are seeing is pretty typical of being 180 off.

You can try moving the wires and see what happens. You pull what is on each terminal and swap it with the one directly across.
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge

Topic author
MReno
Posts: 158
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Re: '89 Grand Wagoner Distributor Cap

Post by MReno »

So once I find TDC on my engine on the compression stroke, if the distributor rotor then does not line up with the #1 cylinder stud on the cap, I will need to move wires on the cap so that #1 wire is in line with where rotor is pointing; form that point, the firing order would be followed as well with remaining plug wires being installed clockwise from the #1, correct?
1989 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Newbee to owing an old classic that needs some work, but she runs!
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tgreese
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Re: '89 Grand Wagoner Distributor Cap

Post by tgreese »

Yes.

Alternatively, you can go to compression #1 TDC, remove the distributor and rotate/insert to where you want #1 to be. Then plug in the wires in the firing order, starting with #1 at the cap location where the rotor is pointing. NB moving the distributor will wipe out the ignition timing setting, so afterwards you'd need to set the timing with your timing light.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

Topic author
MReno
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Re: '89 Grand Wagoner Distributor Cap

Post by MReno »

Well, so many thanks to all of you how provided input on this issue. After replacing the cap and rotor, and determining TDC I was able to rewire the spark plug wires to the correct firing order, and VAROOOOOM! Problem solved, and once she settled in, the engine sounded solid.
1989 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Newbee to owing an old classic that needs some work, but she runs!

will e
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Re: '89 Grand Wagoner Distributor Cap

Post by will e »

That's awesome I am happy it worked out for ya.
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge
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tgreese
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Re: '89 Grand Wagoner Distributor Cap

Post by tgreese »

Excellent!
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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