STUBBORN - Me or J10?

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FSJRomanGladiator
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Re: STUBBORN - Me or J10?

Post by FSJRomanGladiator »

SJTD wrote:I'm not familiar with how HB works, Rock is.

I'd look into his suggestion.
Sounds good. Just want reply saying your advice was influential


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'15 Grand Cherokee 4X4 - Altitude - Blacked Out
'74 J10 - (restoring) 383 Stroker; TH400 Trans, Dana 44's 4.10 gear, Dana 20 TC. 4" Lift from Skyjacker;

Location: NE Georgia

SJTD
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Re: STUBBORN - Me or J10?

Post by SJTD »

Thanks. Still could be one of those but I just learned sumpin about HB.
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.
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FSJRomanGladiator
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Re: STUBBORN - Me or J10?

Post by FSJRomanGladiator »

rocklaurence wrote:Hydro boost valve leaking pressure to the front brakes. Lift the front wheels off the ground and run the motor[not in gear]-dont touch the brakes. Accelerate, idle etc all while checking the front tires to see if the brakes start dragging. If the brake arent dragging, activate the brakes several times over a 5-10 minute period and see if that causes the brakes to drag. It has to be that the pressure is building up or not releasing.
@Rocklaurence - I followed instructions up to accelerate and idle. They drag. In fact when I spin with hand, the tire stops almost instant. Did not touch brakes.

Any advice?


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'15 Grand Cherokee 4X4 - Altitude - Blacked Out
'74 J10 - (restoring) 383 Stroker; TH400 Trans, Dana 44's 4.10 gear, Dana 20 TC. 4" Lift from Skyjacker;

Location: NE Georgia
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FSJRomanGladiator
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Re: STUBBORN - Me or J10?

Post by FSJRomanGladiator »

I also wiggled at 3/9 and 12/6 - no play


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'15 Grand Cherokee 4X4 - Altitude - Blacked Out
'74 J10 - (restoring) 383 Stroker; TH400 Trans, Dana 44's 4.10 gear, Dana 20 TC. 4" Lift from Skyjacker;

Location: NE Georgia

SJTD
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Re: STUBBORN - Me or J10?

Post by SJTD »

Not to step on his toes but I'd remove the belt and go for a drive as a final check. No power steering but you should be able to handle it.
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.
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FSJRomanGladiator
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Re: STUBBORN - Me or J10?

Post by FSJRomanGladiator »

SJTD wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 9:08 am Not to step on his toes but I'd remove the belt and go for a drive as a final check. No power steering but you should be able to handle it.
I wonder if i would lose breaks as the my hydro is connected to the PS Pump?
'15 Grand Cherokee 4X4 - Altitude - Blacked Out
'74 J10 - (restoring) 383 Stroker; TH400 Trans, Dana 44's 4.10 gear, Dana 20 TC. 4" Lift from Skyjacker;

Location: NE Georgia
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FSJRomanGladiator
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Re: STUBBORN - Me or J10?

Post by FSJRomanGladiator »

Here is a thought... my calipers are singe piston. A reman as that is the standard replacement. Do y'all think that the calipers are just not strong enough to withhold the pressure coming in from the hydro and seize/heats up the current calipers, seize the piston and then creates the drag?. You can def hear the pads rubbing when taking Rocks advice and spinning the tire. It feels like the hulk is pulling my bed, when I accelerate.

What if I went to a willwood double piston D52 (140-11290)? I know there is a small potential chance that one of my new parts are faulty from PS PUMP to HYDRO to new bake lines, but I am willing to bet that the cheap OEM replacement reman from cardone might be my problem.

Thanks.
'15 Grand Cherokee 4X4 - Altitude - Blacked Out
'74 J10 - (restoring) 383 Stroker; TH400 Trans, Dana 44's 4.10 gear, Dana 20 TC. 4" Lift from Skyjacker;

Location: NE Georgia

SJTD
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Location: Lompoc, Sunland or somewhere between

Re: STUBBORN - Me or J10?

Post by SJTD »

I don't think the calipers are the problem. HB is just another way to assist braking. Yeah, maybe more power but lotsa guys do the swap without issues. Seems to be a defective booster if like Rock said if they apply without you touching the pedal.

Running with the belt removed would be like driving with the engine off with vacuum power brakes. They'll still work but the effort required to stop will be greater. And no power steering.

Or if you're uncomfortable driving like that, jack up the front again, engine off, push on the brakes. Do they release properly? You've probably done this and they worked ok but I don't remember.
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.
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Re: STUBBORN - Me or J10?

Post by FSJRomanGladiator »

SJTD wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 10:06 pm I don't think the calipers are the problem. HB is just another way to assist braking. Yeah, maybe more power but lotsa guys do the swap without issues. Seems to be a defective booster if like Rock said if they apply without you touching the pedal.

Running with the belt removed would be like driving with the engine off with vacuum power brakes. They'll still work but the effort required to stop will be greater. And no power steering.

Or if you're uncomfortable driving like that, jack up the front again, engine off, push on the brakes. Do they release properly? You've probably done this and they worked ok but I don't remember.
I def see where you are coming from and I know there was a lot of info :D I think, I say "I think" because I still have not solved the is issue, but when I press the brake, it brakes. The pistons push out and touch the pads and then rotor. Doing what it supposed to, I would say HB is as well. Pushing pedal creates a harder brake, releasing creates no braking. Here is where I am stumped, when releasing the brake, the pistons do not retract all the way, therefore drag, heat accumulation and its translating to the hub, rotor, lug nuts, etc. That is where I landed on the thought of calipers. Unless I take off the calipers and reseat the piston, it will stay in "drag" mode. I though I had bad calipers/lemons, so I switched them out and bled the brakes. We were good for a drive then rinse and repeat.

I bought the HB from Elliot - well known and good dude on here. He basically held my hand on install. I truly hope it is not an HB.
'15 Grand Cherokee 4X4 - Altitude - Blacked Out
'74 J10 - (restoring) 383 Stroker; TH400 Trans, Dana 44's 4.10 gear, Dana 20 TC. 4" Lift from Skyjacker;

Location: NE Georgia

SJTD
Posts: 1924
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 12:02 pm
Location: Lompoc, Sunland or somewhere between

Re: STUBBORN - Me or J10?

Post by SJTD »

So with the engine off you apply the brakes and they don't release properly? If so then I don't see it being the HB

This reminds me of a problem I had with a Dasher many moons ago. Installed a new master, drove to work 15 miles or so, last 5 being a bit of city then up a mountain. Started home and after 2 or 3 on the freeway coming home the fronts were dragging so bad I could hardly move when I pulled over.

Turns out the actuating rod was a bit to long so the spill port in the master did't get uncovered properly and pressure built up.

Something like this maybe going on?
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.
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FSJRomanGladiator
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Re: STUBBORN - Me or J10?

Post by FSJRomanGladiator »

SJTD wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 10:19 am So with the engine off you apply the brakes and they don't release properly? If so then I don't see it being the HB

This reminds me of a problem I had with a Dasher many moons ago. Installed a new master, drove to work 15 miles or so, last 5 being a bit of city then up a mountain. Started home and after 2 or 3 on the freeway coming home the fronts were dragging so bad I could hardly move when I pulled over.

Turns out the actuating rod was a bit to long so the spill port in the master didn't get uncovered properly and pressure built up.

Something like this maybe going on?
I agree with you and i think that might be going on. my next step for sure. Check this article out. its was very informative and the rod is part of the steps to diagnose the problem.

https://www.brakebleeder.com/diagnosing ... sc-brakes/
'15 Grand Cherokee 4X4 - Altitude - Blacked Out
'74 J10 - (restoring) 383 Stroker; TH400 Trans, Dana 44's 4.10 gear, Dana 20 TC. 4" Lift from Skyjacker;

Location: NE Georgia

rocklaurence
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Re: STUBBORN - Me or J10?

Post by rocklaurence »

SJTD wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 10:19 am So with the engine off you apply the brakes and they don't release properly? If so then I don't see it being the HB

This reminds me of a problem I had with a Dasher many moons ago. Installed a new master, drove to work 15 miles or so, last 5 being a bit of city then up a mountain. Started home and after 2 or 3 on the freeway coming home the fronts were dragging so bad I could hardly move when I pulled over.

Turns out the actuating rod was a bit to long so the spill port in the master did't get uncovered properly and pressure built up.

Something like this maybe going on?
YES, it could be this too. Another idea, with the engine running give it time for the brakes to start dragging. Then [safely] open the bleeder valve on the caliper. There should be little to no pressure on the fluid. If you get a Big squirt [like when bleeding your brakes], thats a problem. To re-afirm the test, tighten the bleeder and wait a few minutes and then open the bleeder again to see if it builds up again.
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Re: STUBBORN - Me or J10?

Post by FSJRomanGladiator »

rocklaurence wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 12:09 pm
SJTD wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 10:19 am So with the engine off you apply the brakes and they don't release properly? If so then I don't see it being the HB

This reminds me of a problem I had with a Dasher many moons ago. Installed a new master, drove to work 15 miles or so, last 5 being a bit of city then up a mountain. Started home and after 2 or 3 on the freeway coming home the fronts were dragging so bad I could hardly move when I pulled over.

Turns out the actuating rod was a bit to long so the spill port in the master did't get uncovered properly and pressure built up.

Something like this maybe going on?
YES, it could be this too. Another idea, with the engine running give it time for the brakes to start dragging. Then [safely] open the bleeder valve on the caliper. There should be little to no pressure on the fluid. If you get a Big squirt [like when bleeding your brakes], thats a problem. To re-afirm the test, tighten the bleeder and wait a few minutes and then open the bleeder again to see if it builds up again.
Ok guys - I think we might have struck some gold... Need your opinions on the results and pictures.

I spoke to Elliot, the man that sold me the HB. By the way -awesome dude. So patient. He mentioned that the actuator rod needs to be 5.2", measuring from the center of the bolt where it connects to the brake pedal to the firewall. I have a 74 and I think mine spacing is a tad different from brake pedal to firewall or the bracket that the HB connects to is different to what he used (assuming he sent the HB at a 5.2 in length on the actuator rod), but mine was like 5.5" in length. Too long keeps the pressure on.

Its 90 degrees here in North Georgia, I took it out and did same driving. Prior tests were in the 60's and 70's. I stopped multiple times and the bolts were barely warm but no where hot as when I usually get home.

I finally get home and they are hotter than when I stopped during the ride. I jacked up the truck and did the whole drag spin test. Less drag but could here a very little rub. Here are the temps.

let me know if these temps are normal. Maybe someone can test their temps? Also the brakes were a tad mushy after adjusting the actuator rod, so I'll have to bleed the brakes again and keep in mind ROCKS advice when doing.
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'15 Grand Cherokee 4X4 - Altitude - Blacked Out
'74 J10 - (restoring) 383 Stroker; TH400 Trans, Dana 44's 4.10 gear, Dana 20 TC. 4" Lift from Skyjacker;

Location: NE Georgia
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