Delayed Steering Response

[RamJetFSJ]

Does anyone know if stiff, or possibly worn out ball joints could cause a delayed steering response? You dial in how much steering you want, then have to wait a second before you feel it through the jeep and the jeep turns. Once the motion has been made, it holds its place and doesn't wander at all, and it doesn't wander on center even a bit.

Other possible causes? 1" Lift shackles + 4" springs and no trac-bar (probably the problem). Power steering pump issue? Air in the line? Need a steering box brace?

Thanks guys

[SJTD]

I'd be looking at bushings first, especially with long shackles. The lift is 1" so they are actually about 2" longer?

True, no track bar hurts you with this.

Bad ball joints in the linkage would give you slop in the wheel. I don't think bad joints on the knuckles would cause this but you'd have other problems.

[cmaje72]

Check your front axle ujoints. I had a similar weird steering issue like that and one joint was completly rusted solid and the other had very limited movement. Even with my hubs unlocked it affected the steering similar to how you described. It could also be the drag link rolling the tie rod but in my jeep this feels more like a dead spot and you have to turn the wheel more to correct. If you can get someone to cycle the steering while you watch the front end you should be able to see what is moving before the wheels turn.

You shouldn't need the trac bar with the 4" springs but I can tell you from experience that it does tighten things up quite a bit.

[Stuka]

Are you running ram assist steering? What you describe totally sounds like that.

With normal steering, the steering wheel has a direct connection to the knuckles, so the wheel should not be able to move, without other parts also moving.

But my first thought is to check your rag joint. Its the only part that I can think of that would induce a delayed response like that.

[RamJetFSJ]

I'd be looking at bushings first, especially with long shackles. The lift is 1" so they are actually about 2" longer?

True, no track bar hurts you with this.

Bad ball joints in the linkage would give you slop in the wheel. I don't think bad joints on the knuckles would cause this but you'd have other problems.

All the bushings are brand new, and all the bolts are torqued to spec. I used Rear XJ lift shackles, which are known to work, but I need to double check the sleeve dimensions to make sure theres no slop there.

Yes, 1" lift (2" longer shackles). I bought some shorter ones, .75" lift, but they aren't really shorter enough to use, so Im going to sell them.

[RamJetFSJ]

Check your front axle ujoints. I had a similar weird steering issue like that and one joint was completly rusted solid and the other had very limited movement. Even with my hubs unlocked it affected the steering similar to how you described. It could also be the drag link rolling the tie rod but in my jeep this feels more like a dead spot and you have to turn the wheel more to correct. If you can get someone to cycle the steering while you watch the front end you should be able to see what is moving before the wheels turn.

You shouldn't need the trac bar with the 4" springs but I can tell you from experience that it does tighten things up quite a bit.

Never thought about the u-joints considering I have no front driveshaft and my hubs are unlocked, but Ill take a look, thanks! Best way to check them without removing the knuckles?

[RamJetFSJ]

It could also be the drag link rolling the tie rod but in my jeep this feels more like a dead spot and you have to turn the wheel more to correct.

This is an interesting one too. My drag link is nearly parallel with the tie rod, so I doubt thats happening, but if it is, how would you fix that? Roll the adjustable end of the tie rod over so it has very little twist available?

[RamJetFSJ]

Are you running ram assist steering? What you describe totally sounds like that.

With normal steering, the steering wheel has a direct connection to the knuckles, so the wheel should not be able to move, without other parts also moving.

But my first thought is to check your rag joint. Its the only part that I can think of that would induce a delayed response like that.

No ram assist.
No Rag Joint (full ujoint steering shaft)

Im sure the wheel is moving with the rest of the steering system, but Im afraid the axle is moving separate from the car. I have laid under it while someone moves the steering wheel, and as soon as you move the wheel, everything else down the line immediately moves, with no slop or delay. It only happens at speed. Guess its time to borrow a GoPro...

I am very confident that a trac bar would solve my problems, but again, dont really want one if I don't need one, especially since it would have to be custom. I figure I should be able to get this all to work together safely with out it, if everything else is in top shape.

[Stuka]

Oh, only at speed.

What is your tow in set to? Or are you running toe out by chance?

[RamJetFSJ]

Its been a while since I did it, but I think I'm at 1/8 toe in. Maybe 1/4. Ill check today.

My return to center is still not great, at least near straight ahead. Which made me think maybe the ball joints are a bit stiff.

[Stuka]

Your return to center will be worse because of the extended shackles. They make your caster angle worse than factory. And our rigs did not come with much caster to start with.

[RamJetFSJ]

I fixed the caster with a shim. Im good on caster.

[RamJetFSJ]

If I recall, I'm right at 6 deg of caster currently.

[RamJetFSJ]

Im going to ditch the lift shackles. Theres no way they aren't at least causing part of the problem, especially without a trac bar. Well go from there.

[Stuka]

Yeah, the longer they are, the more lever age the spring has on them, and the more the springs can move laterally when turning.

[Lumpskie]

What size tires are you running. If you run a tall/skinny tire, at less than full pressure, you can experience what you describing. The delay comes from sidewall flex. Just another thought.

[cmaje72]

Never thought about the u-joints considering I have no front driveshaft and my hubs are unlocked, but Ill take a look, thanks! Best way to check them without removing the knuckles?

Yep, I chased the problem and replaced tie rod, draglink, steering gear, all the joints in the steering shaft and nothing helped. New ball joints had been put in by the PO and were only a year old. Finally someone on here suggested ujoints and I couldn't imaging they were a problem with the hubs unlocked but sure enough the seals were shot and everything was rusted. I'm not really sure how you could diagnose without taking it apart. Mine looked ok visually. It wasn't until I took it all apart that I could see where the seals failed.

About the tie rod roll. I'm on stock suspension and my tie rod/draglink are parallel too but I still get the deadspot. I have not gotten around to it yet but I am planning on trying this:
http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/R1768.html

[RamJetFSJ]

What size tires are you running. If you run a tall/skinny tire, at less than full pressure, you can experience what you describing. The delay comes from sidewall flex. Just another thought.

Im running 33x10.50 15s, and I definitely didn't have enough air in them. Only 25 psi. But that was the PSI I figured I needed as a starting point based on the Max Load to Max PSI. Definitely going to try another run at 30 psi, and again at 35. Thanks for the great idea!

[RamJetFSJ]

About the tie rod roll. I'm on stock suspension and my tie rod/draglink are parallel too but I still get the deadspot. I have not gotten around to it yet but I am planning on trying this:
http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/R1768.html

Nice find, I'm definitely getting one of those!

[Tatsadasayago]

I had a similar issue with my 76 Wagoneer. I would be going into a turn at freeway speeds, roll the wheel about 1/8th of a turn and it felt like there was a delay of 1-2 seconds before the steering responded. Often, if the turn was banked a little bit the jeep would then oversteer causing me to countersteer. I described it as the jeep driving like it had a hinge in the middle.

After chasing all the usual suspects I decided to check the axle U-bolts for tightness...
Several were just a bit more than finger tight. The leaf springs didn't have any noticeable gaps so I torqued em all down and took a test drive. It drove so nice I almost didn't part it out!

The other thing that was common on the SJs was leaf spring roll at the rear spring eye. The bushings were not stiff enough to stop this without sacrificing the smooth ride so the factory began adding track bars.