My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

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killerinstinct
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by killerinstinct »

Hey Buddy, thanks for sharing the progress on your Wagoneer. Looks great!
Quick question how did you get your AC to run cold? Was it all stock? Mine is an 86 all stock it blows air but not cold and to my understanding I can't refill it will the old FREON. Just wondering what you system is using. Thx

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

killerinstinct wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:16 pm Quick question how did you get your AC to run cold? Was it all stock? Mine is an 86 all stock it blows air but not cold and to my understanding I can't refill it will the old FREON. Just wondering what you system is using. Thx
Yes, my system is all stock and running on r12. I had too recharge it myself as I understand AC shops wouldn't deal with r12 anymore. II got the refrigerant and hoses from eBay.

My main issue with AC was blown thermal fuse in blower resistor and rusted blower motor itself. Otherwise system was not leaking and still had decent amount of Freon in it, so after I replaced both of them (resistor is the same as for heater, motor is different) it started blowing cold-ish. There was a lot of bubbles visible through the sight glass, so I wanted to fill it up. Now it's around 37-38 degrees at the vents.

Before I confirmed that there I was thinking about converting it to r134a and found nice kits on eBay that include new condenser, drier, hoses, compressor, expansion valve, etc - basically everything except evaporator (which you don't need to change, just flush). I think it was around $900, I can look it up later
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Been a while since last update and quite a lot happened over last two months.

After too many attempts to get broken bolts out of exhaust manifold and temporary plugging it with hi temp JBweld putty I accepted my failure and took Wag to the shop for a new exhaust manifold. Everything went well with only 1 bolt breaking and I got Jeep back with zero exhaust leaks. Looks like I finally found a shop nearby that I can trust, took just a bit over a year :)

While I was trying to salvage the exhaust situation myself and Jeep was parked for more than a month, I've dealt with a bunch of other things that required attention.

New brake shoes, drums, cylinders and hardware in the rear, master cylinder, combination valve and braided SS hoses (back and front). Everything fine except minor annoying issue with combination valve and dash brake light flickering when braking. Couldn't get rid of it by letting some brake fluid out. Issue is with light only - all brakes work fine, I suspect there is something bent or stuck around switch in the valve. BJs sent a replacement one, but I haven't gotten to installing it yet.

New heater, bypass and upper rad hoses and new thermostat gasket. I was chasing coolant leak in that area, new gasket and some RTV did the trick, but hoses didn't look good and it looked like a good preventative maintenance item anyway

Got a rebuild kit for alternator and did the rebuild. Now I know I have 78A alternator, not 94A. Marginally better voltage and no squeaking from bearings now. Wasn't expecting much (I'll probably get a 150/100 powermaster alt later) but for $20 and couple hours result is not bad.

New fuel sender - finally I can trust fuel gauge! Knowing that I'll probably destroy plastic nut that holds it I preventatively ordered new one from BJs with the fuel sender. Much to my surprise new one didn't fit (too big), and of course you'll know that only after you had the old one off. Luckily old one was still fine so I reused it. Getting sender in tank was tricky but I've managed not to loose sock or float :D

Took out and cleaned both tailgate latches (after getting a new one) - another note to myself to check old parts before ordering. Once latches were cleaned and lubricated and conical pins adjusted - I can close tailgate on first attempt easily! No more slamming it for 5-7 times before it decides to stay closed. By the way, you don't have to take anything out to get to latches (except maybe safety switch on the drivers side), unlike TSM says

New vacuum leaks - one of the motors for flaps in air cleaner and temp sensor for EGR. Plugged vac lines, disconnected EGR for now - runs better, but tends to die on a cold morning if not warmed up to 150 at least.

With all that in progress I really missed driving Jeep and was super excited to take it out recently

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I was already thinking about going EFI route and recently it comes up more and more often. So far I'm looking at Edelbrock Pro Flo 4 kit and trying to figure out what else I'll need. Deciding whether to get in tank fuel pump or edelbrock fuel sump (and upgrade to electric low pressure pump). Hopefully I finish my research soon and can start ordering parts :)
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy
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GrandJoshoneer
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by GrandJoshoneer »

You’ve been pretty busy! I’ve been rebuilding my rear brakes over the past few days. Biggest issue so far is a stripped brake line fitting. Guess that side doesn’t get a new cylinder.
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1987 Grand Wagoneer

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

In the end I'd say I like doing the brakes. Definitely hated it when doing the first one, second was going better. Then when I had to redo it couple days later (self adjuster was getting stuck) it was super quick. Overall not bad for first time dealing with drums :)

I've almost stripped fitting on line going from junction block to rear left wheel, but it was good enough to put it all back and tighten without any leaks. If I have to change that cylinder again I'm definitely getting a new line. Lesson learned - always use flare nut wrench, I was lazy to reach for it and tried tried loosening fitting with regular one :banghead:
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Not a lot going on with the Jeep, just installed new weatherstripping for both rear doors from BJs. Perfect fit and now doors take a bit of extra effort to close (as expected). I'll let it take shape for couple days before adjusting strikers.

Next big thing is going to be installing Edelbrock Pro Flo 4 EFI, but given that it's a big project for me, I'm taking it in stages.

First would be electrical upgrades, including Powemaster 150/100 alt, bigger charge wire and fuse/relay box too accommodate existing headlight and fog relays as well as relays for electric fuel pump, surge tank and ECU power. When relay/fuse box with all it's bracketry is ready top install, I'm going to remove/replace factory lights wiring as all power distribution and relays will be on pass fender.

Also thinking about putting new fog or driving lights. That's more of an idea at the moment as I want it too look factory-ish and I haven't found any chromed lights that look right.

Once electrical stuff is done, it's going to be exhaust time - need and O2 sensor bung for FI, new cat (without air tube, as I don't have air injection anymore), resonator and/or muffler to finally get rid of that 45-50mph drone.

And then the most dreaded/exciting part - actual MPFI install. Fingers crossed that Oregon weather would cooperate :D
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy
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1978J10REDWHITE
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by 1978J10REDWHITE »

Love the pix of our Wagoneer In the sticks, it’s where they were born to live!

Anyway, I got a 79 Wagoneer all stock . Looking at the Bilstein yet going to do a possible 2~ 2 1/2” Lift on it.
Probably just all new leafs with the extra arch built in them.

The 46 series will work OEM fit / travel etc, yet their travel will be reduced by the 2+” lift numbers at setting position.
So, I need to know from ppl experience about the best thing here on that point, before I commit on any parts.

Don’t like the idea of having reduced their travel on them, likely will never MAX my suspension out, (so the story starts) yet one time will probably damage them.

Are there extension mount plates or devices for this scenario?

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

You’re right, 46 is for stock height and with lift there would be extra stress on them. 5125 is good for lifted rigs, I saw them for different lift heights (from 1 to 11(!) inches) at BJs.

I was hesitant to splurge on Bilsteins at first, but they are worth every penny IMO. Way better than Monroes that I had before
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Not enough time to work on the Jeep recently, but I've made some progress!

Got tired of having to slam rear doors to close and finally adjusted strikers. Closes way easier and I think new weatherstripping cut down road/wind noise just a bit.

After enjoying quite ride for a couple days I started hearing very loud rattling from pass side of engine bay when driving, sounded like I had a dozen empty tin cans hanging there. Turns out that heat stove shield on the new manifold was barely riveted and half of rivets undid themselves (heat expansion probably helped). I don't have warm air intake anymore (vacuum motor at the flap leaks and temp sensor is dead), so ripped that thing off and it's quiet again. Can't wait to get my Edelbrock MPFI and get rid of all that vacuum contraptions!

Now onto the big thing - electrical upgrades as a preparation for EFI. Reclocked and installed Powermaster alt, made new charge wire (6ga wire with 10ga fusible link) and cut 2pin connector off as new alt doesn't need it.

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Also replaced battery lugs with "mil spec" ones like these, makes easier to connect several thick wires directly to battery. 100 amp fuse in the pic above protects wire going to fuse/relay box.

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I never liked factory "power distribution" point on a starter relay stud - looks messy and when I added relays for headlights that are powered off the same stud it made it look even worse

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Tidied it up with busbar and looks much better now! Would be easier to hook up anything later if I need to

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I've removed factory cruise control and installed Bussmann fuse/relay box. Designed and printed mount for the box to be sit where cruise vacuum canister used to be

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Box itself is amazing - has 2 busses (each rated at 100A), easy to build (uses Metripack 280 terminals/seals) and waterproof. You can see a lot of green plugs on the back as for now it's just 4 relays and 6 fuses, but I'll add more as I'll be installing EFI, electric fuel pump, DD cruise control, etc. There are two busbars next to it - ground (bigger with clear cap) and ignition (black caps).

So far I've moved headlights and fog light relays to the box and ripped out factory headlights wiring behind the grille. Moved power feed for USB/aux socket and DD remote to the box as well, they were spliced into wiring behind fuse panel before. Last relay is supplying power to AC/heater blowers - I've noticed that every time I've turned heater or AC on needle on dash voltmeter would dive towards red zone. Figured better/cleaner power supply wouldn't hurt and that was right - dash voltmeter now reads exactly the same voltage as under the hood and heater blows stronger. As a bonus heater fuse is in more accessible location now.

To pass wires through firewall I used the hole previously occupied by cruise hose and wiring, but unfortunately old grommet disintegrated

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Couldn't find new grommet for 1 inch hole in the stores and on amazon. Only option was to pay $16 for this piece of rubber and wait for a week. Screw that, spent couple hours and designed/printed a new one from TPU

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I've routed power to the relay box along existing wiring behind the grill using the same 6ga wire for both 12V and ground feeds straight from battery (12V comes through 100 amp fuse).

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While doing that saw that my transmission oil cooler is weeping a bit, will have to get back to it later and replace old hoses (cooler itself looks fine). Also broke one of the tabs on park/turn light, hence the temporary repair with clear RTV while I wait for BJs to reopen in January

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And when I was almost done hood release cable decided to let go

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One more thing to order from BJs :) And finally I've found the source of strange squeaking sound that was appearing from time to time when steering (wheel was getting a bit heavier at the same time). Turns out front axle vent hose was getting stuck between frame and rag joint and got halfway eaten through

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Moved it away and securely zip tied along with all new wiring - I'll make it all pretty after I'm done with EFI and cruise as there will be more wiring.

Now waiting for Edelbrock kit to arrive, so I can get O2 bung welded in (and do something about loud exhaust at the same time) and it's MPFI time!
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Quick Sunday project - there are four rubber sleeves on tailgate support arms (one per every section of each of arms) that are keeping supports from rattling when tailgate is closed. It was too dark outside to take pictures, so here's a page from parts book. I'm talking about part #20

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Like every other rubber part in our rigs those fall apart with age, and then you have somewhat loud tailgate :) I had a bit of TPU left on the spool and printed new ones. Here they are next to the old sleeve that I saved for measurements

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Installed one on the Jeep - it was a little tight, but a bit of grease helps a lot. Tomorrow I'll replace the rest and hopefully no more rattling from the back
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

riozilla
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by riozilla »

Nice! Great job -

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Managed to work a bit on the waggy this weekend!

Got new turn signals and hood release cable. Yaay, pliers are no more required to pop the hood :)

I've noticed that temp gauge wasn't working after my previous wiring upgrades. Hour spent with multimeter, took instrument cluster out, disconnected bulkhead only to find that wire from temp sender broke inside insulation near the sender itself. Cut out the damaged section, replaced with new wire. It's more of temporary repair as I'm going to go through engine bay wiring when installing EFI. Also thinking about ditching bullet connector and using ring terminal and nut on temp sender, just need to figure out thread size.

And the bulkhead... I'm going to dedicate a full day to cleaning that thing at some point. It's full of some black/brown goo, which I supposed was dielectric grease 30 years ago, and from looks of it some circuits barely make contact. Or maybe buy a bag of Packard 56 terminals and just crimp new ones.

It looks like I have to get into the tailgate at least once a month :) This time it was passenger side latch, it decided not to lock again. Got it out, cleaned, lubricated and works good now.

Few months ago I replaced a brake hoses with stainless steel braided ones from BJs and almost destroyed one on short drive shortly after - they are a bit longer than factory and I didn't think of securing the hose away from the tire. 10 minute drive and I had this

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Fortunately it was only outer plastic layer, so I wrapped the damaged section with tesa tape and made a temporary zip tie contraption to keep hose away from tire :D

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Fast forward 4 months and it's time to replace it with something more sturdy and permanent (one of the zip ties actually broke). Designed and printed this guy

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Even thought about installing it and made hole big enough to fit 1/2 inch socket (usually I think about such things when it's too late)

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Bracket on the Jeep

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Fits really good, but there were other problems. First one I noticed with Jeep jacked up - hose was getting pulled too tight. And with steering wheel at either lock position top part of the bracket would push the hose right against the tire :banghead: Exactly what I was trying to solve..

Redesigned bracket a bit, couple hours of printing and we have new version

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Here it is installed

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Works way better (didn't take more pics as it was getting dark), hose does not contact tire at any position and is not pulled too much, so calling it a win :-bd
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

SJTD
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by SJTD »

For a third iteration how about a closed groove so no cable ties required?
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Hmm, good idea! Now I need to do another version :D but I’m almost out of yellow PETG to match shocks!

Only drawback of closed groove design that it would either require assembling two halves on the jeep (which would be pretty awkward), or adding another part (sort of cap to close the groove), which would be difficult to print in one piece because of its geometry.

Thanks for suggestion, now I have something to think about! Even though I hope this design would work as it is, there is always room for improvement
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Fuel injection parts start to arrive and I can begin to mock up things now. I feel I could stare at this forever

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Harnesses are very well made and most of the leads are good length. ECU is going to be mounted on drivers fender, where Duraspark box used to live

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Some wires are longer than needed, like this coolant sensor wire than good 2 feet more than I'd like it to be. It's easy to shorten, so not really a problem

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Power supply part of the main harness is going to be modified - I want to keep all relays and fuses inside the box as this was the main reason to get it :)

During "research phase" I read on AMC forums that Pro Flo intake doesn't have a PCV baffle and I'd have to transfer it from factory intake. Looks like folks from Edelbrock heard about and fixed it as there is one now. One thing off the list, that's good news.

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One thing that doesn't sit quite right with me now is that Edelbrock harness puts 12V on ignition coil straight from the battery, through a fuse, of course, but without any ballast resistor or resistance wire. According to my knowledge of stock Duraspark ignition, coil only sees 12 V during cranking when resistor wire is bypassed through starter relay and rest of the time it's around 9-10 volts. I see how ballast resistance is important with points ignition, maybe less so for electronic ignition like Duraspark. More self education is needed :ugeek:

EDIT: upon more reading about theory behind ballast resistor and MSD recommendations (I'm getting MSD blaster 2 coil) it looks like it is OK to run it without ballast resistance, as long as I don't have points ignition. Condenser (capacitor) on the coil bracket also looks mostly important for points, but it might help with noise suppression so it's going to stay
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Just hit 200k miles on the grocery run :) I've only put 6k on it so far, but planning for a much more!

Almost there...
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And here we are
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Looks kind of strange how they used different font for highest digit. Not enough space to fit one more full size digit in a full size jeep :D
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Got Jeep back from the shop, had few things done - some I couldn't do myself, some I just didn't want to do myself :D
  • O2 sensor bung was welded in. Originally we wanted to put the sensor after merge in the Y pipe, but there wasn't enough space around that, so it went in right before the merge. Also removed the flap from the heat riser and replaced both gaskets on it. Exhaust ticking is gone!
  • New muffler - nothing fancy, but it's a great improvement over rusty chinese flowmaster knockoff which had a horrible drone at around 45-50 mph, not sure what RPM exactly. As a bonus, high idle during warmup is way quieter now.
  • New oil pan gasket. I was going to do it sooner or later (not a major leak, just slowly seeping all around), even got a new gasket, but wasn't exactly looking forward to wrestling a pan out of there while laying on the ground. Then I decided to have them replace it and take a look at engine lower end. Guy tells me that engine looks amazing, there was no sludge or metal on the pan. Great news!
  • Last on the "while it's on the lift" thing was to grease all ujoints, especially the ones in a double cardan joint at TC. I try to grease them all with every oil change, but those ujoints with needle style fitting are really hard to get (for me, at least) and I haven't greased them before.
With all that done, I'm ready to start removing carb, intake, valve covers and the rest tomorrow and with enough luck I hope to have new intake, distributor and surge tank installed and plumbed by the end of the weekend. We'll see how it goes, expect a lot of pictures soon!
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Started EFI install this weekend, after removing carb and all vac hoses I've pulled valve coveres for the first time and was really surprised to see this

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and this

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I've never expected it to be this clean, no sludge at all! Then intake came off and valley looks equally good

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I don't have any history on that engine, except that around 15 years ago oil pan fell off on a highway and then it was sitting for a year or two before getting fixed :) Maybe they rebuilt it at the same time, but there's no paperwork about rebuild.

Edelbrock puts intake gaskets in their kit, and I also got valley pan metal one. Once I had intake off I noticed that there wasn't anything but RTV and metal gasket - up to that moment I didn't think how I'm going to fit metal and regular gasket in there :) After quick research it turned out that metal pan + RTV is preferred way, so that's what I did. Some time later I had this beauty sitting on top of the engine

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Makes old crusty valve covers look extra crusty, doesn't it? They are going to be repainted later this week.

There is one concern about new intake so far - stock one had a bolt hole for triangular AC compressor bracket here

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Obviously old bracket would work with Edelbrock intake, so now I'm thinking should I make a new one or just leave it as is? Bottom bracket look sturdy enough...

Next steps are refresh valve covers, put new distributor in (already swapped gear from old one), mount fuel sump (under overflow tank) and ECU (where Duraspark box used to live), plumbing and wiring.

I think I'll have extra fun with TV linkage for transmission because from how it looks now it will never work with new intake. Maybe I'll get get Lokar TV cable, but I'm going to worry about that when I get there
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Trying to squeeze some Jeep work during work week and refreshed valve covers with new paint. That's how they looked when I took them off the engine

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First round of paint stripper later, it looks like they were painted with a brush at some point

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Two more applications of paint stripper and most of the old paint is off

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Wire brushed and got almost all rust off, pitted parts would get rust converter

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And finally primed, painted and clear coated

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They look fine from couple feet, not so great up close. I wasn't going for a show quality, just make them less ugly than they were :D Maybe I'll get some nice Edelbrock covers if those would start rusting again
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Not a lot of progress since we got few days of real winter here in Oregon and it's too cold to work outside.

Valve covers are back on the engine, along with new distributor and cleaned up thermostat housing (hole for CTO is plugged now)

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Printed a mount for ECU and put it where Duraspark box used to be

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And my first time trying to fab something out of metal (aluminum flat bars in this case) - bracket for Edelbrock fuel sump . Sump will be mounted on driver side fender, under overflow tank. Bracket is a bit crooked as I was measuring it off the sump itself, only to find out exact dimensions on the last page of installation instruction when I cut and riveted everything together... :banghead:

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Two rivnut for bottom bolt because II initially put it "wrong" way (would have a loop of wiring around it) - now I can mount the sump facing either way

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Bottom straps should've been a couple inches longer - originally I was planning to bolt them to fender as well, but after fitting the bracket it doesn't look like an option. Both bottom straps would be fixed to the frame, debating on exact way of mounting now (extend with aluminum or print plastic parts, drill frame and put a rivnut or use VHB tape).

Harness that comes with PF4 kit needs a bit of modifications - I'm moving main relay and fuse into my fuse box, fuel sump lead is few feet too long, etc. Surprisingly enough, O2 sensor wiring is long enough to go from drivers fender (ECU location) all the way to merge in Y pipe
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy
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