My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Area to show off your Custom Build threads.

Topic author
sirrus
Vendor
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:13 pm
Location: Hillsboro, OR

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:47 am

Fury5 wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:15 pm
Nice job on the headlight relay harness. Looks very professional.

Richard
Thanks! It's actually rather simple project. Spent way more time waiting for parts and measuring than actually putting it together. And now I have quite some leftovers..

And now I'm in a parts waiting stage of the next project - relay upgrades for power windows, tailgate and power locks (inspired by dodgerammit threads here and here). Planning to do it quite differently though, with nice micro ISO relays mounted inside doors/tailgate and keeping original wiring almost intact. Will post my progress hopefully later this week
1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver

Relay modules and other parts for sale

How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)


Topic author
sirrus
Vendor
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:13 pm
Location: Hillsboro, OR

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus » Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:45 pm

Ever since I started digging into electrics of Waggy I was amazed at lack of relays in FSJ, among other questionable decisions (due to cost cutting I guess) :) be it headlights, power windows or locks, which are all driven by switches. For some reason they decided to use relay for fog lights, I guess thanks for it at least (but not for headlights that draw almost the same current). Between undersized wiring (mostly applies to headlights, which are wired with 16 gauge wire) which definitely does not get better with age, switches that suffer corrosion from moisture (hello, power windows and tailgate) and burnt contacts from high currents - all that adds up to crazy voltage drop by the time power finally reaches consumer, be it light bulb or window motor.

I already took care of headlights couple of weeks ago and I'm still amazed how big the difference is. I can finally drive Jeep at night! I also rebuilt power windows/locks/seats switches in front doors cleaning enormous amount of green/black gunk from them and it also paid off - both seats that I thought were dead came back to life, windows started rolling (well, most of them :)), locks are now locking and unlocking... half of the time and on front doors only (but you can't always get everything at once, huh?). I even regained 75% of my power mirrors (driver's side does not move horizontally, but new mirror is waiting), and I must say that mirror switch was my least and most favorite at the same time. It's real pain in the rear end to take apart without losing anything and then put it back together, but amount of engineering that went into it...

Anyway, after cleaning up one more switch (now tailgate) I had enough of it, especially because in some time I'll probably have to open them up again to clean burnt contacts again and again. So it's time to put relays, relays everywhere! I must say that after cleaning switches my windows were rolling at acceptable speed, tailgate was struggling a bit - but overall it was not terrible. So my main goal was to take load off switches and make that part of electrical system more sensible and if I get things moving faster - couldn't hurt.

dodgerammit did a great job covering his relay journey with windows and locks, but I didn't want to have have dozen of relays somewhere in the cab and add bunch of wires. Why not put relays in the doors or in the tailgate? That way I can keep new wiring to a minimum and wire relay in right before the motor, leaving old wiring to carry low amperage signals only... I also wanted to keep original wiring as intact as I could (within reason of course) and to be able to revert to original scheme if I have to - think of failed relay and not having spare to replace it, exactly when you need to open the tailgate of course. Unlikely, but possible.

I needed something compact (space is at a premium) and waterproof (water can in doors), so after thorough searching I found relay box from GEP that takes two micro ISO relays and is waterproof. $80 for pre-wired on amazon, ouch (apparently amazon doesn't carry it anymore, can't find it there). I can wire it myself, save money and have some fun in the process. So after week of waiting I finally got all the parts:

Image

Base, cover (I already put mounting tab on it), two SPDT relays, MetriPack 280 pins, cable seals and plugs, TPA (terminal position assurance) clip (that blue plastic thing in the middle), crimper and good 12 GA GXL wire. Hour later I had this ready:

Image

Image

Today was installation day, I decided to put first box into tailgate. There are six wires going out of relay box:
* 12V power
* Ground

* 2 inputs
* 2 outputs

Power and ground are obvious and both are easily available inside tailgate, yellow t-tap is on "always hot" 12V wire and there is very convenient ground point right next to it:

Image

Inputs/outputs may need a little explanation. Relay box is wired into 2 wires going from switches to motor that I cut and added connectors:

Image

"Motor" side with male connector in the pic above would be connected to "output" side of relay module, while "switches" side with female connector is going to be "input" for it. I also decided to splice box in before safety switch to keep it's function - if I did it after it would only work for direction. Here's connected box, ready to test:

Image

After confirming that everything works it's time to mount the box permanently and tidy up wiring a bit

Image

There's enough clearance inside, so window shouldn't hit anything when going up or down

Image

I also positioned the box so I can easily remove it if I had to replace relay - undo 1 screw and it's out (plastic holder stays inside)

Image

last look before closing up

Image

There were couple little things I wanted to do while I was in there. I was missing one rubber glass stop and the other fell off maybe a decade ago and was so dry I couldn't put it back on. Time to use 3D printer again (mounting plate for relay box was also printed) and now I have those

Image

Fits perfectly

Image

While I was printing I also quickly designed a plug for access holes I drilled earlier

Image

Image

Image

Fits a little loose, but should be OK when it's squished by carpeted panel. I like it way better than my previous solution

Image

Next step would be power windows (almost the same as tailgate) and power locks, locks being a bit trickier because of different wiring.
1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver

Relay modules and other parts for sale

How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)


Topic author
sirrus
Vendor
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:13 pm
Location: Hillsboro, OR

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:48 pm

Another full weekend spent with Jeep, and I have installed relay modules for all windows and locks as well. No dramatic difference with front windows, probably because I cleaned up all switches and connectors not too long ago, but for rear windows difference is very noticeable.

Here's stock wiring, before relays:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO2-J5qWloM

and with relays:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FrR2tGh2Hc

Locks came alive too, before when hitting the switch it was like 50/50 chance of front doors locking, rear ones barely moved. Now its all 4 all the time (sorry no video). And without door panel those locks are loud! Sounds like they are about to launch those knobs through the roof :D

While working with the doors I've finally found why rear right window wasn't moving before:
Image

One of previous owners didn't feel like replacing a flex track and just shove wood block in there, held by a couple of screws. So I got a chance to enjoy another common FSJ activity (aside from fixing a tailgate) - replacing a flex track. Turned out way easier than I thought - the most difficult step was shoving that assembly back in the door. But now I have all power windows and locks operational! Definitely worth it

So now while I have all 4 door open next step would be applying some soundproofing, installing speakers and redoing door panels. After that I plan to be done with those damn doors for good :)
1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver

Relay modules and other parts for sale

How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)


rapom
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:00 am

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by rapom » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:56 am

You may want to stock up on those relays. Especially if there not in a good environment. I have some on a headlight harness and with a lot of dielectric grease I can double their life span. Before the grease I was replacing them every year.

They are not sealed as well as the Bosch relays.


Topic author
sirrus
Vendor
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:13 pm
Location: Hillsboro, OR

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:39 am

What kind of headlight harness do you have? Are relays in any kind of waterproof housing? And what kind of failure were you experiencing?

Sounds like they are not if you had to use dielectric grease on the contacts - elements will definitely kill them, especially if they are not of sealed type. Regular Bosch style relays are not waterproof either - they are special versions with "skirt" and special connector for waterproof version - I've used those for my headlight harness. Not my favorite to be honest - they are kinda big and messy :)

Relays that I use (Song Chuan 301-1C-C-R1-U01-12VDC) for locks and windows are rated as "Flux-Resistant Type" - meaning that relay is sealed to only prevent flux from entering when soldering, not from water on regular basis. That does not matter in my case because both relays are inside the box which provides protection from the environment (it is waterproof) for relays and terminals. From the looks of 30+ year old weatherpack connectors on my rig I'd say those silicone seals do really good job
1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver

Relay modules and other parts for sale

How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)


rapom
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:00 am

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by rapom » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:48 am

I bought a cheap relay kit on ebay for my 98 Jeep Cherokee (These vehicles have a problem with weak headlight output) and those are the style relay that came with the kit. And no, there is no waterproof housing which I'm sure aggravates the problem. I have easy access to them so it's not a problem changing one out. Just letting you know my experience with them.


rapom
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:00 am

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by rapom » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:01 pm

Just want to add that I have 79 cherokee chief that I installed a serehill relay kit for the rear window and I with thinking of relocating the relay board inside the cargo area behind a side panel just to get it in a better environment. What I like about the serehill kit is that I have a key fob for wirelessly rolling the window up and down. I use it so much that I don't even think about using the key or interior switch.

I do like how well thought out your system is though. I like the throughness you apply to every job you tackle


Topic author
sirrus
Vendor
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:13 pm
Location: Hillsboro, OR

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:07 pm

Didn’t mean to sound rude, sorry if it came off like that. Thanks for sharing your experience!

Those micro iso relays are usually rated only as flux/dust-proof, because most of the time they are found inside of some sort of enclosed box, like a fuse/relay box.

While it should be relatively easy to replace them in headlight harness, taking the door apart on a regular basis is more of a hassle :D one of the reasons why I went with that style of boxes
1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver

Relay modules and other parts for sale

How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)


Topic author
sirrus
Vendor
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:13 pm
Location: Hillsboro, OR

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:12 pm

rapom wrote:Just want to add that I have 79 cherokee chief that I installed a serehill relay kit for the rear window and I with thinking of relocating the relay board inside the cargo area behind a side panel just to get it in a better environment. What I like about the serehill kit is that I have a key fob for wirelessly rolling the window up and down. I use it so much that I don't even think about using the key or interior switch.

I do like how well thought out your system is though. I like the throughness you apply to every job you tackle
I’m thinking about adding some sort of remote for locks and tailgate now that everything is controlled by relays. Isn’t my top priority, but definitely nice thing to have. With more time at home because of the virus I might come up with something soon!

Thoroughness is basically a necessity for me, I don’t like when people half-ass something and even more, I hate repairing same stuff again and again :) so trying to do it once and good, but that also requires more thinking and prototyping in advance
1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver

Relay modules and other parts for sale

How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)


Topic author
sirrus
Vendor
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:13 pm
Location: Hillsboro, OR

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:42 pm

During my Sunday hunt for short circuit in parking lights I took front park/turn light off the jeep. I initially suspected a short inside of the unit but they checked out fine. Electrically fine, but dirty. Gaskets literally started falling apart when I touched them:

Image

Image

Yuck. Little bit of simple green and water and now they look considerably better

Image

Image

Image

I didn't have anything like the original gasket material (I guess that was some kind of foam 30 years ago :)) and I'm too lazy to cut new one. But now too lazy to draw and 3d print it :) 3 prototypes later I have a good rubber gasket

Image

Image

Image

It is a little bit too stiff but seems to provide a good seal :-bd
1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver

Relay modules and other parts for sale

How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)


rapom
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:00 am

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by rapom » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:54 am

Looking good


Topic author
sirrus
Vendor
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:13 pm
Location: Hillsboro, OR

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus » Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:56 am

While most of my Jeep plans are on hold as I'm waiting for my hand to heal, trying to tackle things I can do single-handedly :D All 4 door panels are in different stages of work, so decided to fix rear door handle.

This handle came off the rear right and apparently suffered from that wood block repair for the window. I guess someone got too enthusiastic putting screws back in and literally crushed internal of the handle:

Image

Image

Image

As a result screw goes right through with almost nothing to grab on - when I took it off it was barely hanging on one screw. I was ready to start looking for a new one, but decided to try to fix it first. After lots of measuring and couple prototypes I've got a insert for the handle:

Image

Checking how it fits, looks good

Image

Image

Epoxied in place and left to cure

Image

Cutting same shape from piece of wood would probably be easier and faster, but I love designing and printing parts for Jeep :) And if I need to fix any other handle (all of them have some cracks in the same area) I can have a pair of those inserts printed in 30 minutes. Also cleaned up the handle itself, went from this

Image

to this

Image

Not brand new, but as close as I can get :)
1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver

Relay modules and other parts for sale

How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)


Topic author
sirrus
Vendor
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:13 pm
Location: Hillsboro, OR

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:18 am

As I mentioned before, I was in the process of redoing all doors panels on my rig. Old cardboard backing board were really warped and probably wouldn't survive re-installation, so I decided to make new ones for rear like I did before with front doors, I also wanted to use plastic clips instead of stock metal ones which are probably the worst I've ever worked with. That required making different type of holes for them and it kinda hard to do with 1/4 plywood, so I designed plastic inserts that would hold the clips and epoxied them into door panels. Dis the same for ashtray mount in the rear doors - it was originally riveted to the backing board, not it is held by two machine screws

Image

Rounded the edges and added top thin part that fits into channel on the door

Image

Test fitting on the Jeep, everything looks good

Image

While I was working on the doors I also repainted ashtray because there was some surface rust all over it. Stripped it to bare metal

Image

And sprayed with Rustoleum khaki - it's a little lighter color than original, but still pretty close. Looks way better than before

Image

While the panels were off the doors fixed some small things like bent door latch, replaced door handle gaskets and lubricated flex tracks. And soundproofing - layer of butyl mat on the inside of the door and layer of closed cell foam on the back of door panel - made things a lot quieter and also made the door heavier :) And then it was time to put it all back together

Image

Looks really good and I'm happy with how it all turned out. However if I had to do it again, I would definitely go with ABS panels and would probably ditch panel clips and use 3M Dual Lock tape (more about it below). Oh, and the panel in the cargo area

Image

Image

Could reuse shiny chrome ring, so printed a plastic one. And I think I'll have to make new clips for it later because it just does not want to snap in there all the way and squeaks from time to time
1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver

Relay modules and other parts for sale

How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)


Topic author
sirrus
Vendor
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:13 pm
Location: Hillsboro, OR

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:55 am

Then it was time for an exhausting search for short in parking lights (details here), during which I took out a parking brake light switch and cleaned it. Now I have a nice warning if I have parking brake engaged.

Another thing that caught my attention during that hunt were fusible links on the starter relay - insulation on them was starting to crack and one was replaced by regular wire with somewhat shoddy butt connector. So I replaced all of the :) And I still have 5 ft of fusible wire in both gauges (14 and 18, IIRC).

Crimped ring terminals on new fusible links

Image

And spliced them in

Image

Battery terminal on starter relay is extremely colorful now

Image

Another quick repair - replaced old round 3 pin connector on the distributor with waterproof weatherpack one

Image

And all of a sudden my engine is running way better and smoother. Amount of green gunk in the old plug was incredible, but I forgot to take a pic :(

Then it was long overdue thing - new speakers and stereo. Original one was dead and initially I had a plan to gut it and fit FM tuner and bluetooth module inside it to keep factory appearance, but LCD was also dead and it was too much work anyway. Factory Jensen speakers were also very dead:

Image

Spent some time looking for stereo that would look right in GW dash - most of modern ones are too shiny and colorful. Was even considering recently released Blaupunkt deck - has all the goodies like blutooth, iPod and memory card support and looks very period correct (backlight is adjustable to any color)

Image

Price tag though.. $500+ is too much. And then this popped up

Image

Clarion M508 - same functionality, looks very good and it's $190 at crutchfield. Bought it and two pairs of Polk DB522 speakers. Cool thing about crutchfield - they included all wiring adapters (stereo and speakers) and mounting frame for free, so installation was easy

Image

And goal achieved - I can listen to music again and it does not stick out like a sore thumb.

Time for dash bezel to go back and then I remembered how my struggle with getting it out without breaking it. Those metal clips grab really good! I'm sure that I'll have to take the bezel off more than once again (at least for fixing the AC), so I used 3M Dual Lock tape to keep bezel in place

Image

Image

It is strong enough to hald the bezel and adhesive on it is good so even small pieces do not come off. In fact, I'm even considering using it for door panels if I ever have to do them again
1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver

Relay modules and other parts for sale

How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)


Topic author
sirrus
Vendor
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:13 pm
Location: Hillsboro, OR

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus » Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:39 am

And the final part, for now at least :)

Both my rear quarter windows were leaking, so it was time to reseal them. Taking them out turned out to be really easy and I was able to do that alone. If only I knew what I was getting into.. Putting it back is a real PITA, but it's manageable if you have a helper and right tools (something like plastic trim removal tool, flat screwdriver would work too but it's easier to scratch paint). I found that it's easier to start with the side closer to rear door and then work your way towards the rear, getting that lip out and pushing window in it's place.

Rubber gasket was in surprisingly good shape, no tears, cracks and still soft so I used it again. Used 3M 08509 compound (10 oz was just right for two windows) - it is supposed to stay soft, flexible and waterproof. Cleaning it up is easy on hard surfaces like painted metal or glass, but if you get it on carpet - you're screwed. I cleaned all the blobs off the windows right away, but maybe it would be easier if I waited for it to cure - something tells me that you probably can just rub it off with your finger. Went through couple rolls of paper towels and 1/3 of a bottle of adhesive cleaner during cleaning up. We're expecting some rain later this week - going to see how watertight it is now :)

Had to revisit the tailgate, or a hole that tailgate wiring goes through. Originally wires were running inside PVC tubing that was probably soft 25 years ago, but now it was all hard, brittle and not doing a lot to protect wires:

Image

My first attempt to fix that was to put some spiral wrap around the wires

Image

That was a bad idea, as after it was catching on the edges. After closing and opening tailgate for maybe 10 times it already looked like this

Image

I tried thinner wire wrap that I had, but it had the same issue. That's when I came up with those:

Image

Long piece on the right was supposed to be glued to the bottom and long part would go into the tailgate with wires running inside it. However it was next to impossible to get it in there, so that one didn't work.

But two piece solution (on the left in the pic above) was a success - went right in (I used clear silicone RTV to glue it in), covered all the sharp metal edges and stayed in place (for about a week by now)

Image

I'd still have to play with dimensions a bit (make it little shorter and make the flange narrower) to make it easier to install, but otherwise I'm really happy with how it turned out. Time will tel how good it is at protecting those wires from chafing
1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver

Relay modules and other parts for sale

How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)

User avatar

NoLaFSJ
Posts: 129
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:41 am
Location: New Orleans, LA

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by NoLaFSJ » Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:41 am

I like your idea of using the 3M Dual Lock tape to secure the door panels to the door. I think it will work well. I will definitely keep that in mind for the future, as I too have wondered how I would secure the door panels if I rebuild out of ABS. If you try it out, let us know how it goes.

Also, great work in general. You are doing a great service to your Wag and teaching us all some things along the way! Thanks for sharing!
Brian

1990 Grand Wagoneer


irondawg
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:13 pm
Location: Leander, TX

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by irondawg » Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:21 am

Great job! I like your use of the 3D printer and Dual Lock. I've used that on motorcycles to hold batteries/relays and other bits down. I don't think you'll have any problems with the door panels and I might steal that idea. Another option, and most likely what I'll do for the back panels in my build, are dzus fasteners. Easy on and off. We used them in general aviation to secure engine cowels, access and instrument panels. They are always under tension so keep things tight.
1978 Cherokee Chief WT in a thousand pieces
Previous Jeep: 2001 Grand Cherokee


Topic author
sirrus
Vendor
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:13 pm
Location: Hillsboro, OR

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:58 pm

NoLaFSJ wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:41 am
I like your idea of using the 3M Dual Lock tape to secure the door panels to the door. I think it will work well. I will definitely keep that in mind for the future, as I too have wondered how I would secure the door panels if I rebuild out of ABS. If you try it out, let us know how it goes.
I think that Dual Lock will be enough for the sides of the panel - top side is held by that metal channel and bottom has 3 or 4 screws, so whole thing should be more or less secure even without clips or tape.

One thing that I dont like about ABS panels is that they are a straight sheet - and original ones are not exactly straight. Our door have a little curve near the window line:

Image

And original backing boards are thinner in that area (about 1/8 with the rest being 1/4-ish)

Image

So when you put a straight panel on the door you end up with a considerable gap in that curve area. I didn't think about that when I was doing my first panel and here's how it was (not the best angle, but the only pic I have)

Image

To get it aligned with the door I had to cut off 1-2 inches off the top and attach a strip of 1/8 hardboard (actually a markerboard) - you can see that white or brown part in previous post. With ABS panels I think you can gently heat it and bend, but that's just my theory
irondawg wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:21 am
Great job! I like your use of the 3D printer and Dual Lock. I've used that on motorcycles to hold batteries/relays and other bits down. I don't think you'll have any problems with the door panels and I might steal that idea. Another option, and most likely what I'll do for the back panels in my build, are dzus fasteners. Easy on and off. We used them in general aviation to secure engine cowels, access and instrument panels. They are always under tension so keep things tight.
3D printer came in very useful for all the broken/missing/new plastic things on the Wag! Even after few years in the 3D printing hobby and couple printers built it is still super exciting to me. Watching it create something you just designed on your screen is fascinating :) and design part is also fun.

Thanks for the tip about dzus fasteners, I've never heard of them, now watching a video how they work.

I just realized I never said what kind of clips I've used:
Image

And here's a standard metal clip (in the first version of my plywood panel)

Image

Image

Weirdly enough my front panels used one plastic clip and the rest of clips were metal ones. This is a factory thing, because the holes in the cardboard backing are different for metal and plastic clips. Why couldn't they use just one type (plastic is way better) escapes me...
1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver

Relay modules and other parts for sale

How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)


Topic author
sirrus
Vendor
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:13 pm
Location: Hillsboro, OR

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus » Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:44 pm

irondawg wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:21 am
Another option, and most likely what I'll do for the back panels in my build, are dzus fasteners. Easy on and off. We used them in general aviation to secure engine cowels, access and instrument panels. They are always under tension so keep things tight.
Did my research on dzus fasteners - really interesting design! Quite some effort to install, but they should work really well for panels that you want take on/off from time to time.

Definitely not for door panels, but as you said they work on side panel in the cargo area on the passenger side where jack is stored. My only concern would be that sheet metal there is quite thin and wouldn't allow countersinks for rivets holding the spring in place, but I'm sure that can be figured out.

So it looks like dual lock tape for door panels and possibly dzus (or the same tape, since I'm lazy :) ) should be a great alternative to the regular clips. In fact I'm thinking about trying with dual lock on that side cargo panel tomorrow, if only I can get the tape to stick to plywood..

Thanks again for the tip on those fasteners!
1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver

Relay modules and other parts for sale

How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)

User avatar

NoLaFSJ
Posts: 129
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:41 am
Location: New Orleans, LA

Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by NoLaFSJ » Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:25 am

Great info, once again... Thanks! I was originally thinking of heating and bending the ABS as you mentioned as well. Also, you could source the ABS in differing thicknesses, you could replicate what you did with the plywood/marker board all with ABS.
Brian

1990 Grand Wagoneer

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest