Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

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Stuka
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

Post by Stuka »

What length are the front springs? Are the longer than your old ones?
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ
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Phils67
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

Post by Phils67 »

They are standard J20 springs, I forget the length. They are a little longer than the post mount style that were in it. Just moved the shackle brackets further back. The forward edge of the tab is now inline with the rear of the old post mount. I am calling it good. Bounced the suspension a few times by pushing on the hood and I think I can go ahead and tighten them down now and proceed finishing the front up, then turn the truck around and begin removing the rear. ImageImage

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1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

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Just ran into another snag. I am using a XJ steering box and pitman. Ran it for years no problem. Direct bolt up. The pitman is too small to accept the new drag link. The old one fit fine but was puny in comparison to the new one. Since it is tapered I cant just drill it out. SO, looks like I am ordering a J20 pitman and praying it fits the splines on the XJ box. First I have to do some research on splines and diameter of the sector shaft to see if the two are the same. They should be the same in theory, both are Saginaw boxes. Other than that though the front is pretty close to installed to the point i can yard move it, providing i could steer it lol wrapping up a few things then done for now. Bjs and rockauto dont carry the stock arm, ANYBODY HAVE A STOCK PITMAN ARM THEY'D LIKE TO DONATE TO THE CAUSE!?!?
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

Post by Phils67 »

Todays other updates. Ordered a stock pitman arm. Crown makes it. There are 2 different ones. My battery is dead in my micrometer. Ordered the .715 bore, assuming the smaller bore is for Wags and J10's?. Hope I bought the correct one. I'll update when it arrives. The Tom Woods extended slip driveshaft has a mile of play so I have no worries about the FSSR driving it into the transfer case. I am more worried about it pulling apart on extension, and I doubt that will be an issue either. Calipers are on, springs are tightened. U bolts are tightened, etc. All boils down to the pitman arm now to seal the deal on the front (except stabilizers and shocks but I dont care about all that right now). So as it stands at close of business on 3/21/20, I have a late model suspension and 3/4 diff installed in the front of the 67! This is a major upgrade and accomplishment in my eyes and there are still things to button up but worth all the aggravation. Gonna try to spin it around tomorrow so I can start the rear, providing I get the ambition. Overall I would 100% use these parts for this conversion setup again if i ever decide to do this to another early FSJ.
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

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Didn't feel like fighting to spin it around without the steering finished, still waiting on the pitman arm. So for now I put the 35s back on the rear to drive it forward so I can start on the rear end. Here are a few pics of where it's at VS. where it was with the lift and 35s. If I can get the rear remotely close to the height of the front I will be thrilled. Offer was accepted on a new house so I need this to be able to roll about 7 miles on it's own by end of May/earlyJune. Its 13 degrees here. Bundled up and time to get crankin'

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Last edited by Phils67 on Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

Post by Phils67 »

PicsImageImageImage

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1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.

rocklaurence
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

Post by rocklaurence »

I like it! You nailed it on the rear shackle position. If the Pitman arm fails you could purchase a Taper tools and ream the hole to fit. Ive used them to add 1 ton joints to Ford knuckles. Also, dont forget to lower the bump-stops [a Jeep XJ rear stop maybe long enough]. You dont want to over compress your new springs.
Great Job!!!
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

Post by Phils67 »

Thanks. What are bumpstops? Lol. There aren't any at the moment, I'll add them later. So for reference, when positioning the CJ7 brackets the front edge of the tab needs to line up with the rear edge of the post mount to do this conversion. That's what I recommend to anyone attempting this swap. I did start it today to drive it forward. Had to straighten the fan blade since I bent it unknowingly when the jack slipped the other day. That's another part I'll end up replacing but for now it's fairly straight enough to start and move around. Good times. Quick run to the pharmacy for my daughters Rx then back to start removal of the rear. Not looking forward to getting the D60 off of the bench. I dont have an engine crane, Just a poorly positioned beam and chain hoist. The 44 was a pain to get off the bench. The 60 I'm sure will equally suck lol
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

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The brackets will work however the forward post mount shared rivets with the crossmember so currently it is straddling the post mount. I have shims which may help with pinion angle. The center pin is offset to the front some but it was on the old springs as well when jacked up. On the ground it was pretty centered. Note the ass of the truck is way up on stands as well which makes the angle look steeper than it is. What are your thoughts? Drill 2 bolts on each side, put the diff under, lower it down and see how it sits or just run with it? Pics as always. New on driverside, old on passenger. I would PREFER not to remove my hitch to move the shackle brackets back further. At least not right now. Goal is get it back on all 4 wheels and be able to move it at this point. Minor adjustments can happen later down the road. The new house thing came about pretty quickly and I wasn't anticipating it just yet or I would have waited to start this project until after the move but now it has to get movable again. Also, the shackles are lift shackles which I installed to lower the rear some with the lift kit, a stock height shackle eventually will bring the rear of the spring down a little more, so as it sits i think with the shims it may work out ok. ImageImageImageImage

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1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

Post by Phils67 »

This rivet needs to be removed. There's 2 bolts holding the bracket now and the jack is simulating weight on it. I think if I use the wedges and eventually get stock GM shackles it will work out fine.dont quote me on this just yet though.ImageImage

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1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

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F**k....
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1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

Post by Phils67 »

Now I had a few minutes to sit back and think, I have the truck lowered onto the diff. The springs sit out further than the mounts on the diff using the GM brackets, like i know I won't be able to pull it together. So the GM brackets wont work at all without relocating the perches on the axle which I dont want to have to do. I'd like it to be where I can swap in another J20 D60 later if I want without modifying it. SO....with that said, does anyone know if spring mounts for a J truck are available aftermarket. There IS a GW I know of sitting in the woods rotting I could cut the mounts off of, but that requires air or electric so its unfortunately out of the question. Anyone have any ideas. At this point I'm just going to clean up and get my head wrapped around this. I knew it wouldn't be this easy. Also, it sits kinda high in the ass but with the truck sitting on the diff the pinion angle is ok as far as I am concerned, at least at this point it is. I need a quick solution. It has to at least be able to be towed to the new house in a few months but I would prefer if it wasn't. I am assuming the springs on the old setup pitched inboard at the front post mount and that's why the rear mounts worked, the new front mounts come out as far as the rears I was using
Last edited by Phils67 on Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

Post by Phils67 »

So after a bunch of measuring I need spring mounts they sit off of the frame about 1" where the GM ones are around 2.25. Anyone want to measure their daily drivers and let me know if you find something close? Lol
Last edited by Phils67 on Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

Post by Phils67 »

I have a plan.
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Stuka
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

Post by Stuka »

Yeah, this is what I mentioned earlier on. The GM frames are narrow, and the spring mounts sit off the frame a bit.

You definitely do not want to move the spring perches on the axle, you would have to run wheels that really push the tires out.

The back end does look high, and the tires look to be too far forward in the wheel well? Maybe its the angle of the shot.

If you want photos or measurements of a J10's box mounts, I can get them for you.
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Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

Post by Phils67 »

If you could get me measurements I'd appreciate it. I measured both axles to compare the spring perches and they are the same. So obviously the only reason the shackle brackets worked prior is because the springs must have tapered inboard to meet the post mounts. I saw a member on the motherboard had used ranger shackle brackets so I am going to look into those as well. I'll get the local auto parts store to get one in stock and go measure before I buy
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.

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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

Post by rocklaurence »

You maybe able to have a local shop build you a Box Mount very cheaply. A simple box with tabs to mount the box to the frame-one spring bolt hole in the box and the other through the frame. Basically, copy what Jeep built.
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

Post by Phils67 »

I dont have what jeep built in front of me to reference. This thing was post mounts.
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

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Just a little update. I have been thinking alot about this issue for the last few days, and since mother nature decided to drop the white doom all over the driveway I have had plenty of time to sit inside and research. I am waiting on a reply from ATS but it SEEMS they have brackets that will work, and once confirmed I will go ahead and order 4 of them so we can get this party started again as soon as the driveway dries up. The J20 pitman arm should be here tomorrow so I will update on if that worked or not with the XJ steering box as well.
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Re: Axle/suspension upgrade early FSJ

Post by Phils67 »

Pitman showed up. The .715 one is the correct bore for the j20 drag link. The pitman DOES fit the XJ box so we will have steering once again!!
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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