in tank fuel pump

For everything related to using Fuel Injection in an FSJ.

Topic author
ArchitectJS
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Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:01 pm

in tank fuel pump

Post by ArchitectJS »

see link--

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-12-307

any reason this wouldn't work, if I utilized it with my Holley Sniper upgrade?

I have to believe its going to work with the Cherokee lock ring. I need to drill a return anyway...

Likely the issue will be depth and float accuracy. Thoughts?
1982 Cherokee, base (Bumppo)
AMC 258 / A727 - AMC 20 / NP208
Holley Sniper with Hyperspark
3" Rough County Lift

ShagWagon
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Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by ShagWagon »

Go with a Novak in tank for FSJ.
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.

Topic author
ArchitectJS
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:01 pm

Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by ArchitectJS »

1) Stock, 258 - not an LS conversion
2) When I went to their site, they didn't have anything for FSJ - only the CJ model. Do I need to contact them directly?
1982 Cherokee, base (Bumppo)
AMC 258 / A727 - AMC 20 / NP208
Holley Sniper with Hyperspark
3" Rough County Lift
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Renodemona
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Location: Sparks, NV

Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by Renodemona »

Novak is not selling FSJ specific anymore. I would NOT recommend their setup anyway. I used this:

https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page ... /prd84.htm

Very pleased.
"Wait, what's on fire!?" KJ7TCT
--------------------------------------------------------------
1976 Cherokee w/t 'Susan' 401/TH400/QT(PT)
FiTech Go EFI, Edelbrock Performer intake
3" Rough Country Springs, HEI Dizzy
-------------------------------------------------------------
2018 Cherokee Trailhawk V6 'Sedna'

ShagWagon
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Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by ShagWagon »

ArchitectJS wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:14 pm 1) Stock, 258 - not an LS conversion
2) When I went to their site, they didn't have anything for FSJ - only the CJ model. Do I need to contact them directly?
I’d call them first. I couldnt find it on their site either.

You can also make one for about $150 with an original sending unit and a high pressure pump which is what they did.
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.

Topic author
ArchitectJS
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Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:01 pm

Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by ArchitectJS »

I’m new to this, and I’m definitely NOT a fabricator. I want something I can drop in the existing tank. That’s why I proffered the CJ pump.

The Tanks Inc. things looks like a bit of modification required.
Last edited by ArchitectJS on Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1982 Cherokee, base (Bumppo)
AMC 258 / A727 - AMC 20 / NP208
Holley Sniper with Hyperspark
3" Rough County Lift
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ghcoe
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Location: SW Idaho

Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by ghcoe »

You can run a surge tank if you don't want to mess with dropping the tank and conversions.
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All-Terrain T/A® KO2
Safari Kit
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Factory Tire Carrier
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PBG928
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Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by PBG928 »

Novak has them for a FSJ. Call or email them. See response to my email to them:

"Yes, we do have a fuel system kit available for the '86-'91 Grand
Wagoneer's. If your LS engine already has a fuel pressure regulator on the
fuel rail, then you would need the non-regulated kit # FSK-JW3NR, $329.00.
If your LS engine does not have the fuel pressure regulator on the fuel
rail, then you would need kit # FSK-JW3, $348.00. Because we do not
currently have them on our website, you can order your fuel system kit by
either calling our Sales Department, or if you would rather pay via PayPal
then I can assist you via email & simply send you a Payment Request in
PayPal. Let me know if you would like me to help you place an order, or if
you have any further questions or concerns!


Thank you,

Easton @ Novak, Inc.
www.novakconversions.com
Main-(435)753-2513
Sales-(877)602-1500

Topic author
ArchitectJS
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Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by ArchitectJS »

Again- I’m stock. Not LS.

I emailed them on Friday- no response.
1982 Cherokee, base (Bumppo)
AMC 258 / A727 - AMC 20 / NP208
Holley Sniper with Hyperspark
3" Rough County Lift
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Renodemona
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Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by Renodemona »

Why not run an external pump on the frame rail? What PSI does the Holley need? I ran a TBI external pump for 3 years, it was kinda noisy, but the whole Jeep is noisy, so...eh...
Even less work than the Novak. I don't think its a good setup as there is no support for the in tank pump just flopping around. (ie nothing hard that it attaches directly to to prevent it from moving around and pinching/cutting wires) This is what happened to mine. It was good for a year then stopped working suddenly. When I dropped the tank I discovered that the pump could move about quite a bit despite the relatively stiff hose that was supposed to hold it in place and had chaffed the wires bare until it shorted. I'm not saying this will happen to you, but after discovering this I was looking for something to hold the in tank pump still and the PA Tanks was it. It was kind of annoying to cut a big hole but not hard. I ended up not using the little basin as the hole would be on the "high" end of the tank and would starve the pump with about 1/3 tank in. (ask me how I found out LOL) Since taking the basin off its been *knocks on desk* no issues!
An external offers less work, just find a low spot near the tank and run some new hose. You can run a return while you're there, easy peasy.
"Wait, what's on fire!?" KJ7TCT
--------------------------------------------------------------
1976 Cherokee w/t 'Susan' 401/TH400/QT(PT)
FiTech Go EFI, Edelbrock Performer intake
3" Rough Country Springs, HEI Dizzy
-------------------------------------------------------------
2018 Cherokee Trailhawk V6 'Sedna'

Topic author
ArchitectJS
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:01 pm

Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by ArchitectJS »

Renodemona wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:50 pm Why not run an external pump on the frame rail? What PSI does the Holley need? I ran a TBI external pump for 3 years, it was kinda noisy, but the whole Jeep is noisy, so...eh...

An external offers less work, just find a low spot near the tank and run some new hose. You can run a return while you're there, easy peasy.
Fine answer. The kit i bought from BJs includes the external. I was just thinking about a "do it once - do it forever" kind of a solution, after hearing lots of people complain about the external.

Barring a drop in solution, I guess I'll start with that...
1982 Cherokee, base (Bumppo)
AMC 258 / A727 - AMC 20 / NP208
Holley Sniper with Hyperspark
3" Rough County Lift
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ghcoe
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Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by ghcoe »

Surge tank is still a option too. I picked up a surge tank from Aliexpress with upgraded pump for just under $100.00.

-Surge tanks act as a mini fuel cell that the high pressure tank fits into.
-You use the existing low pressure pump to supply fuel to the surge tank. Just like it would the carburetor float bowl. You still run the return line back to the tank so that fresh cool fuel circulates to keep the high pressure pump cool.
-The high pressure pump supplies the FI with fuel and there is a return line from the pressure regulator back to the surge tank. With the stock pump and this return line the surge tank stays full at all times. This helps even when main fuel tank is low or on odd angled roads where fuel starvation might happen if no baffles are installed in main tank.
-Surge tank acts like a float bowl to keep fuel available for the high pressure pump. This eliminates the need for baffles in the main tanks as well.
-High pressure pump is suspended in fuel similar to a in tank mounted pump so noise is also reduced.
-High pressure pump is mounted in a place for easy access in case replacement is needed. Great for in field repairs if you carry a spare pump since you don't have to drop the main tank. If no baffles are installed with a in tank pump then this is a probable issue since electric fuel pumps fail quickly if not supplied with fuel.
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1977 Jeep Cherokee WT
All-Terrain T/A® KO2
Safari Kit
Factory Brush Guard
Factory Tire Carrier
Custom Roof Rack

Topic author
ArchitectJS
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:01 pm

Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by ArchitectJS »

instructions say:

"fuel pump must be mounted lower than the lowest part of the fuel tank and as closer to the tank as possible"

Can i utilize the existing fuel sending unit as my supply and bulkhead return? (as long as the pump is mounted as above)
I thought i saw a video where someone did this... (I did find pics here from someones V8 Wagoneer)

Or are we supposed to install a bulkhead thru the side of the tank?
1982 Cherokee, base (Bumppo)
AMC 258 / A727 - AMC 20 / NP208
Holley Sniper with Hyperspark
3" Rough County Lift
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Renodemona
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Location: Sparks, NV

Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by Renodemona »

Yes, you use the normal supply as is, just have to mount the pump lower than the bottom of the tank, usually on the side of the frame rail just aft of the crossover. You can use the same return as well though I would go to a larger diameter if it is still 1/4"
"Wait, what's on fire!?" KJ7TCT
--------------------------------------------------------------
1976 Cherokee w/t 'Susan' 401/TH400/QT(PT)
FiTech Go EFI, Edelbrock Performer intake
3" Rough Country Springs, HEI Dizzy
-------------------------------------------------------------
2018 Cherokee Trailhawk V6 'Sedna'

PBG928
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:30 pm

Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by PBG928 »

Novak not very good with email. Call them as they have pump for stock AMC 360.

1979bettywhite
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Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by 1979bettywhite »

Agree. I have called and talked to them. Very helpful on the phone. Short answer is they have them. My hunch is they don't have them in bulk and put them together as needed, so they don't put them on the site anymore. My frame rail mounted pump works just fine. If I ever do decide to upgrade, it will be to the Novak in-tank unit with upgraded supply and return lines to the Sniper. But until then the frame mounted one works well. Many on here and elsewhere run the frame mounted option. If you can get over the noise, then it is the easiest way to go. I really only hear mine at idle, sitting still.
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az chip
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Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by az chip »

I am using a Holley generic in tank. With some slight mods that I found on here. It is not hard and is simple to do. Mine works great. I used an old tank to do the actual mock up.
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'81 Cherokee Chief 81 WT Chief/MSD 6/Holley Sniper/ Rusty 4" Spring lift/ Bulltear oil adapter/K&P Engineering Oil Filter/ NP 208/ Serehill Light Harness/KC LED Headlights/ Evil Twin Fab Roof Rack and sliders/ Ross mirror mounts.

1979bettywhite
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Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by 1979bettywhite »

How did you seal the new pickup line to the top of the sending unit? May have been in your build notes, but just curious. Assumed you drilled it out to accommodate for the larger pickup line, and used the old pickup line as a return.
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az chip
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Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by az chip »

1979bettywhite wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:48 pm How did you seal the new pickup line to the top of the sending unit? May have been in your build notes, but just curious. Assumed you drilled it out to accommodate for the larger pickup line, and used the old pickup line as a return.
I used a aviation sealant that bonds and seals. Impervious to fuel.
'81 Cherokee Chief 81 WT Chief/MSD 6/Holley Sniper/ Rusty 4" Spring lift/ Bulltear oil adapter/K&P Engineering Oil Filter/ NP 208/ Serehill Light Harness/KC LED Headlights/ Evil Twin Fab Roof Rack and sliders/ Ross mirror mounts.

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Re: in tank fuel pump

Post by sonoraed »

Keep in mind it's not if you are running a 401 or LS, it's fuel volume, pressure and fuel slosh, these days all oem's run PWM in tank pumps, my guess is much money has been spent to arrive at this conclusion, on the other hand 20 years ago I ran early 90's chevy PU TBI in my 79 J10 360 AMC frame mounted pump for years with no problem, keep in mind the J10 had fuel return from the factory and only ran 15 lbs of pressure.
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