Rivian

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SJTD
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Re: Rivian

Post by SJTD »

So where is all this electricity for vehicles going to come from? Most are against new, safe nukes.
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ArchitectJS
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Re: Rivian

Post by ArchitectJS »

SJTD wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:15 pm So where is all this electricity for vehicles going to come from? Most are against new, safe nukes.
That was also included in the article which i am unable to reference. It said, regarding global energy production:

17,086 Twh are produced by fossil fuels, for everything from electrical power to manufacturing to autos
9,528 Twh are produced by non-fossil fuels; wind, hydro, solar and bio-waste

It went on that if we were to phase out fossil fuels it would require 37,670 Twh of new non-fossil electricity to accomplish what the fossil fuels were able to do.
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Re: Rivian

Post by ArchitectJS »

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letank
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Road taxes

Post by letank »

How are the feds and the state going to levy road taxes on E vehicles... usually the gas tax does the job, here in Cal we pay $.51 to the state and $.18 to the feds...
E vehicles pay nothing and still use the roadway....

As stated those E vehicles are very very heavy, not good for the black top... The Tesla are from 4500 to 5300lbs.

Semi have a pay a road tax when over 55K lbs... starts at $100 and climb rapidly X2 at 60Klbs...
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will e
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Re: Rivian

Post by will e »

51 cents a gallon! That's highway robbery!
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dodgerammit
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Re: Rivian

Post by dodgerammit »

ArchitectJS wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:26 am
dodgerammit wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:01 pm They are rapidly moving away from cobalt for savings and supply issues. I've followed the electric push for a while and have never seen the above figures. Sources?

Add to that, the batteries are highly recyclable, so that cuts out quite a bit of the production process in the future.
I cant find the original article i was referencing but here is a similar one.

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/press-office/pres ... t-zer.html
This represents, just under two times the total annual world cobalt production, nearly the entire world production of neodymium, three quarters the world’s lithium production and 12% of the world’s copper production during 2018.
Referencing the UK only
Again, the cobalt they are referencing has been under focus to remove from batteries all together. Should be a non issue soon.
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/11/17/h ... f-evs.html
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dodgerammit
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Re: Road taxes

Post by dodgerammit »

letank wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 2:48 pm How are the feds and the state going to levy road taxes on E vehicles...
You underestimate the craftiness of the govt. :D
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Re: Road taxes

Post by Stuka »

letank wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 2:48 pm How are the feds and the state going to levy road taxes on E vehicles... usually the gas tax does the job, here in Cal we pay $.51 to the state and $.18 to the feds...
E vehicles pay nothing and still use the roadway....

As stated those E vehicles are very very heavy, not good for the black top... The Tesla are from 4500 to 5300lbs.

Semi have a pay a road tax when over 55K lbs... starts at $100 and climb rapidly X2 at 60Klbs...
I know California is trying to figure this out. Some countries like Norway, where 77% of all new vehicles sold are electric, are really trying to figure it out. While their air has gotten a lot cleaner, they have a big deficit on road taxes. Ultimately it will probably start with racing fast chargers, much like you are taxed at a gas pump. Obviously this won’t impact people that charge at home. But it would be a start.
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cone
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Re: Rivian

Post by cone »

All they have to do is require an annual inspection and note the mileage, then send you a bill. All new cars can also be tracked and software can be updated so mileage can be send to whatever government agency that wants it. They probably don't want to do it yet as it might discourage people from buying EVs. Also, I lived in Norway for three years, driving conditions there are different than here. They have lots of public transportation in the Oslo area where most people live and as far as I can remember they never did have dirty air.
Last edited by cone on Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

iharding
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Re: Rivian

Post by iharding »

dodgerammit wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:01 pm
ArchitectJS wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:14 pm
Stuka wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:42 pm Right now, the only thing that ICE vehicles have over electric is the ability to refuel faster, and that electric vehicles are heavier. Price has largely become comparable between them (this excludes tax rebates for companies that have not yet used them up). The F150 Lightning will be priced only slightly above a gas powered version. Another cost to compare is price to own. An oil change in a current model truck is 150-200 depending on the engine. Oil changes don’t exist on an electric vehicle. Maintenance as a whole is very low. No oil changes, no transmission fluid. There is coolant, but it does not have to deal with the high temps that engine coolant does, so it last much longer.
I'm not sure about this. One thing that is going to drag universal EV adoption is battery technology. With current tech (of course this can change), and based on 2017 production levels, we need hundreds of years of production in order to create enough batteries for EV ands grid storage. The highlights being 550+ years for Cobalt and 700+ for lithium.
They are rapidly moving away from cobalt for savings and supply issues. I've followed the electric push for a while and have never seen the above figures. Sources?

Add to that, the batteries are highly recyclable, so that cuts out quite a bit of the production process in the future.
I have heard that as of right now EV batteries are zero percent recyclable. I will not buy any EV until there is battery recycling included in the price.

Also the F150 weighs 6000 pounds. That's insane. 1300 of that is battery. They can't turn all those batteries loose on the planet without a robust recycling infrastructure with lucrative incentives.

My J2500 weighs 3600 pounds. It was built almost 60 years ago. Keeping it is the greenest thing I can do. The pollution and environmental devastation involved in manufacturing any car, but particularly an EV is massive.

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Re: Road taxes

Post by letank »

dodgerammit wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:43 pm
letank wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 2:48 pm How are the feds and the state going to levy road taxes on E vehicles...
You underestimate the craftiness of the govt. :D
Yes, but the govt has too much inertia, it may take 5 to 10 years to get started!
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SJTD
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Re: Rivian

Post by SJTD »

Not when it comes to bringing in mo money.
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dodgerammit
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Re: Rivian

Post by dodgerammit »

iharding wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:21 am
I have heard that as of right now EV batteries are zero percent recyclable. I will not buy any EV until there is battery recycling included in the price.

You heard wrong:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mXSMwZUiCU

And this video is 3 years old now.
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Re: Rivian

Post by rocklaurence »

News Flash: Since Elon Musk turned on the Democrats for trying to keep his Tesla factory closed last year and has moved/moving to Texas the Fed's are suing him at every turn. This will continue until he submits to the Liberal Narrative.
I have several bullets for this group to consider:
  • EV is better in every way except refuel time
  • The fuel needed to generate the electricity will come from Carbon fuels
  • They will have to provide Rebuilt battery packs soon because replacing a Cell Pack will be a huge expense
  • We need an Electric Crate Motor for our Classic vehicles
  • I hate the appearance of Wind mills and they're not very productive. Who wants to look at the horizon and see thousands of wind mills?
  • I hate the appearance of solar panels, take up too much space compared to their output. Who wants to look at fields of panels? Id rather look at fields of Methane producing Steak/cattle--bless their little hearts.
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tgreese
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Re: Rivian

Post by tgreese »

JMO - society has two options if electric vehicles become the norm: 1) phase out the autonomous driver and automobile and only allow mass transit, or 2) nuclear power.
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SJTD
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Re: Rivian

Post by SJTD »

What about fusion?

It's only 20 years away. :lol:
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Stuka
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Re: Rivian

Post by Stuka »

First and last warning. If politics are mentioned one more time, thread is locked. This conversation has absolutely nothing to do with politics.
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tgreese
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Re: Rivian

Post by tgreese »

SJTD wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:54 am What about fusion?

It's only 20 years away. :lol:
For those of you that don't get the joke, fusion was only 20 years away 20 years ago. Maybe it's really on the cusp now, but I doubt it. I have some limited cred re this topic. There has been a lot of progress with modular fission reactors, which seem more likely to be in wide usage sooner than any practical fusion plant. So says my crystal ball.

Trying to be factual rather than political. Sorry if this crosses a line.
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Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
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dodgerammit
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Re: Rivian

Post by dodgerammit »

tgreese wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:30 am
SJTD wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:54 am What about fusion?

It's only 20 years away. :lol:
For those of you that don't get the joke, fusion was only 20 years away 20 years ago. Maybe it's really on the cusp now, but I doubt it. I have some limited cred re this topic. There has been a lot of progress with modular fission reactors, which seem more likely to be in wide usage sooner than any practical fusion plant. So says my crystal ball.

Trying to be factual rather than political. Sorry if this crosses a line.
I found what I'm gonna power my Wagoneer with!
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/05/you- ... n-replica/ :D

But seriously, I was reading an article today concerning the next generation of batteries. Solid state.

They've had issues with dendrites. Basically, the solid electolyte will develop tiny fractures (dendrites) during charging that eventually short circuit the battery.
This company just developed a solid state battery that doesn't break down from charging:

https://insideevs.com/news/550906/quant ... retention/

Apparently, Solid state batteries offer potentials such as Extremely rapid charging (10%-80% in 12 minutes) Can you say gas station quick? Roughly the time it takes to fill up, run in to grab a drink or snack, and pay.
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letank
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Re: Rivian

Post by letank »

More battery potential pitfalls: the nail test... or the nail penetration test. Imagine being high centered... then... ouch...

NINGDE, China — As the global pandemic hit, the world’s biggest maker of electric car batteries, a Chinese company now worth more than General Motors and Ford combined, suddenly faced its own crisis.

A rival had released a video suggesting that a technology used by the company, CATL, and other manufacturers could cause car fires. Imitating a Chinese government safety test, the rival had driven a nail through a battery cell, one of many in a typical electric car battery. The cell exploded in a fireball.

not too sure if you can access the reading :

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/22/busi ... Position=5

otherwise plenty of videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg_480HUheo
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