Am I a Bad Man ? LS into an Original 401 Chief

[CU4WHLN]

The issue:

I am collecting parts to build an LS/6L80 Chief. I currently own a 1977 original "Z" code that is a pretty solid runner with 64k miles, 401, 400 auto, and Q-Trac. This was the best sheet metal I could find 4 years ago when I picked this one up to replace my yellow "Madness" build. Am I stupid for "ruining" an original Jeep? ( It's nice, but far from perfect ).

Should I sell this one and try to find a rust free project instead? Since I am changing the engine/trans anyway? Doing paint and interior as well. I have already done a bunch of safety/mechanical on this one... so it's certainly a good driver.

Is a vehicle like this really worth any more than a 360 Chief ? Somebody want to trade a rust free roller Chief? . Ha ha ha .. I said "rust free".

I am planning to tow my wife and 61 Shasta camper 5 to 6,000 miles cross country starting with RT 66 .. then the northern route to a few national parks back to Michigan. Looking for the reliability of a modern power-train.

I have mixed feelings.. I know the one I own now... the good, the bad, the ugly. BUT - kinda hate to ruin an original if it's collectible.

What are the communities thoughts on this?

And Go !

[fulsizjeep]

Some may say it is worth more with original 401. I have reservations. Other things to factor in each vintage FSJ. How big is the Shasta? I would prefer the longer wheel base of a Jtruck for much camper towing.

[CU4WHLN]

The Shasta? Its little - only 16ft. 2300 lbs.

Trading could be a hassle as well - I am ready for another project....

[tgreese]

No, as long as that 401 goes into a CJ. Zoom.

[Stuka]

Yes a a factory 401 can be worth more than a 360 Cherokee. But its pretty hard to quantify. FSJ values are all over the place. And as much as I hate the "LS the world" movement, I am not against it in an FSJ. I love to see AMC powered AMC's, but being that AMC went away 34 years ago, I see no reason to not put a modern drive train into one.

If I had the space and time to do a full resto, I would do a Coyote swap.

As for starting over with another Jeep, I guess if you could find a good home for the one you have, sure. But thats hard to do. Trying to be picky about a buyer that will buy it to keep it original is very difficult. As chances are, the next guy will just do what you didn't want to.

The 401 is certainly worth some money to the AMC car guys, and plenty of guys that would love to give it a home in a Javelin or the like.

[will e]

No, you are not a bad man. The heart of these rigs is the style and look. They had a lot of different engine options over the years. There is nothing 'bad' about replacing very old technology with newer technology. There is only so much that can be done with an AMC block. You're not messing with a Shelby Mustang or a Yenko Camero.

That being said, I plan on keeping my 401, but my needs are different. I want a reliable trail rig. I've gone with a SOA/SF and big tires so lots of street power isn't really needed. My 401 just needs to get me to the trail and then work all day. Experience has told me that more modifications often leads to more problems on the trail.

BUT.. if the 401 ever dies I do have it in the back of my mind to do a swap. We'll see.

Have fun with your project and keep us posted.

[tgreese]

... The 401 is certainly worth some money to the AMC car guys, and plenty of guys that would love to give it a home in a Javelin or the like.

To the OP - you understand the value of a virgin 401 block? More than 30 or 40 over and it's usual that the bores should be sleeved. Way back when, this was about $100 per hole, and likely higher now. So if your engine has never been rebuilt, that's an added premium.

Personally I would not be sad if this engine went into a deserving AMC car. And the AMC car guys seem to value their vintage parts a lot higher than Jeepers do.

[CU4WHLN]

Thanks for the input guys .. and a "possible" vehicle swap is being discussed, we'll see how that works out. Have engine/trans now - and parts are arriving. I told the wife I have a money pit in the garage. Figure I'll get that discussion over now .. LOL

So - tgreese ... what is a fully running, 401 roughly worth these days? No rebuilds. Its a 77 with Thorely headers (but I do have some stock manifolds) Holly carb currently, but have a nice original too.

Where would I find AMC folks interested in said engine? Suggestions?

[tgreese]

No idea. You could search through old posts on the AMC forums and see. Or look at eBay.

You could sell on the forums or through Craig's List or eBay or Facebook marketplace or an ad in Hemmings. If you want a quick sale, there are likely restoration shops out there that would buy it. Lots of avenues - use your ingenuity.

I was just pointing out that a virgin block should fetch at least an $800 premium over a generic core.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=amc+autom ... 111E7F87B6

[JeepsAndGuns]

Keep it original. There is no point in saying you have a factory 401 cherokee if it does not still have the 401.
Take the money you were going to spend on the ls and put it in the 401.
I am a little biased. I HATE chevy swaps into jeeps. I cringe every time I see one and every time someone talks about doing it.

[fulsizjeep]

Holly carb currently, but have a nice original too.

Having the original carb will not help much if you don't have the original intake. I personally think they are only good as a boat anchor. It is a unique Ford spread bore design for the Motorcraft 4350 carb.

[CU4WHLN]

Holly carb currently, but have a nice original too.

Having the original carb will not help much if you don't have the original intake. I personally think they are only good as a boat anchor. It is a unique Ford spread bore design for the Motorcraft 4350 carb.

It has the original 4 bbl intake. The engine is all original- except for Thorely headers, TFI coil/cap/wire upgrade, and a Holly carb.
The engine needs nothing. It could literally be a pull and install for a vehicle. Only has 64k on it anyway. (The selling cost could offset some of the LT GEN 5 engine/6L80 trans purchase.

Time will tell what happens. I am gathering up all the needed parts to do a LT swap now, this, or another Cherokee.

[CU4WHLN]

Keep it original. There is no point in saying you have a factory 401 cherokee if it does not still have the 401.
Take the money you were going to spend on the ls and put it in the 401.
I am a little biased. I HATE chevy swaps into jeeps. I cringe every time I see one and every time someone talks about doing it.

Such a quandary … I have struggled with this for over a year now. In the end, I NEED a better powertrain for pulling the camper cross country, period. If I was only using it local, I would keep it a 401 and go enjoy. Trust me, this project is going to be a MAJOR amount of work to get it to my desired level to cart my wife, dog, and camper 6,000 miles at a time. ( I figure 2 years.. and 20k - 25kk with ME doing most of the work.)



Still have a trade option from someone who would appreciate the originality of this one. They want to do a full restore on a Chief. Of course, we have to compare notes and values. This is going to take a bit of time. However, every time I look my SJ over, it has a LOT going for it. Not to mention all the safety/mechanical work I have done in the last 4 years.

[fulsizjeep]

Get a long bed Jtruck. They pull so much nicer than the 109" wheelbase of a Cherokee.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Instead of hacking up a original jeep to put a chevy drivetrain in it to be able to pull a camper, why not just buy a good used chevy truck with the drivetrain in it that you want, and use that to pull the camper?

[CU4WHLN]

Instead of hacking up a original jeep to put a chevy drivetrain in it to be able to pull a camper, why not just buy a good used chevy truck with the drivetrain in it that you want, and use that to pull the camper?

The thought of a new tow vehicle HAS crossed my mind... But a Grand Cherokee, I only own and drive Jeeps.

No firm info on "The Trade" yet. Other person is very busy and hasn't had time to pull the potential trade out and send pics yet. It's a solid 12hrs from the house too .. (24 hrs of towing) some serious tow time and cost to pull this off. Hmmmm - Is it worth it ??

I may just proceed with this one in the end. (I am ordering a lot of the adaptation parts now. Engine mounts, t-case adaptor, PS set up etc.)

[irondawg]

Reason I did a swap is time/money. I've been 'overlanding' before it was called that for years both on motorcycles and Jeeps. Since I live in Texas and like to go to Big Bend, which is 8 hours away, you want something that is reliable. Me and my riding buddies spend days making sure our bikes are top notch. There's nothing worse than being 'that' guy who broke down on the trail and needs a lift back. That lift might take hours possilby days to recover (colichi mud will suck you to hell). Plus, getting stuck out in the desert is dangerous, you either get baked in the hot sun or freeze to death at night. The chance of someone finding you is not that great too. There's no cell phone service in a lot of places in west Texas...you're on your own.

That being said, I looked at a few options when deciding on how my build was going to go. I looked at a hemi, LS, LT, and even a Coyote (it's what in my truck and I love that engine!). I went with an L83 in the end (LT). It's a modern engine with high reliability and good/easy support. Parts are plentiful. I found a good deal on one a pulled the trigger knowing that an LS would have been an easier swap. So far it's been going well (knock on wood). It dropped right in between the frame rails and with a 6L80E transmission and 241C t-case, it was almost like it was designed for the Jeep.

Now, if I had a 401? I'd get a CJ and drop it in with some 40s and tow it behind the Chief!

[ghcoe]

I find my old '77 Cherokee as reliable as my wife's 2014 Cherokee. Probably even more so since I don't have a check engine light come on at 50,000 miles.
I have driven it everywhere off road across 3 states with fellow Overlanders and it is the star of my YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYuRx2 ... subscriber . The biggest issue with older vehicles is the modern fuels. Once you get that figured out old iron, as long as it is in good shape, is as reliable as ever.

[Stuka]

I find my old '77 Cherokee as reliable as my wife's 2014 Cherokee. Probably even more so since I don't have a check engine light come on at 50,000 miles.

Man, if you Jeeps had check engine lights I am not sure they would ever turn off

Comically, my J10 does have a "Check Carb" light that was always on more than it was off before I ripped out the ECU.

[fulsizjeep]

Quit teasing yourself and just do it. LS that thing.