Anyone have 3 link / 4 Link build threads, also airbags?

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CoconutFiasco
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Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:51 am

Anyone have 3 link / 4 Link build threads, also airbags?

Post by CoconutFiasco »

Hi guys,

I am trying to fall back in love with the my Wagoneer, but I feel like every time I drive it theres some new issue. Im not new to project cars, but this coupled with the potholes and crappy roads in Massachusetts has essentially made driving the jeep fairly unpleasant every time. I have a 6 inch lift, and its ridiculously bumpy.

I wanted to know if anyone had done 3 link or 4 link swaps with airbags or coilovers and found success there, also if it had any major effect on off roading.

Thanks

-1986 Grand Wagoneer LQ4 4l80 6 inch lift
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Yeller
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Location: Rogers County Oklahoma

Re: Anyone have 3 link / 4 Link build threads, also airbags?

Post by Yeller »

I’ve 3 linked the front of my J2000 and couldn’t be happier. I resisted the urge to link the rear and used 63” Chevy springs from a 99-08 pickup, inexpensive and ride fantastic. I’ve done many link conversions over the years so it’s doable. Doing a 4 link in the rear is very difficult to get good ride and control out of without moving the fuel tank behind the rear axle.

There’s some details in my build thread, link in my signature.
The bus I ride is so short it is a yellow Smart Car full of squirrels, monkeys and clowns.

1970 J2500 Resto Mod
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewt ... 12&t=21395

1974 Bronco “Broncno”
https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threa ... st-3411909

sierrablue
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Re: Anyone have 3 link / 4 Link build threads, also airbags?

Post by sierrablue »

thej10guy and I have been discussing some for his truck, pretty much the same goal. One of the ideas I came up with was the '67-'79 Fords have a 3-link from the factory. You could cut all of the suspension pieces out and take the axle from that (D44), and change it as needed for the narrower Jeep frame. However, that axle is the right width for a J10, not for a Wagoneer.

Another idea I had was taking the rear end out of a late '60s coil-sprung GM. I can't remember if it was GMC or Chevrolet--one of them had coils and the other had leafs.

Those are the only relatively low-cost, minimal fab ideas we've come up with so far.
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.
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Yeller
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Location: Rogers County Oklahoma

Re: Anyone have 3 link / 4 Link build threads, also airbags?

Post by Yeller »

sierrablue wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 7:46 am thej10guy and I have been discussing some for his truck, pretty much the same goal. One of the ideas I came up with was the '67-'79 Fords have a 3-link from the factory. You could cut all of the suspension pieces out and take the axle from that (D44), and change it as needed for the narrower Jeep frame. However, that axle is the right width for a J10, not for a Wagoneer.

Another idea I had was taking the rear end out of a late '60s coil-sprung GM. I can't remember if it was GMC or Chevrolet--one of them had coils and the other had leafs.

Those are the only relatively low-cost, minimal fab ideas we've come up with so far.
Here’s some input to this, sorry Seirra it’s not pretty lol.

The ford radius arm stuff is ok but to use on a FSJ, it needs be quite tall. Then the is the performance limitations, it drives and rides ok but in 4wd the performance is mediocre at best, if doin the work, get everything out of it you can get. Using 2 lower control arms and a single upper with a track bar you are able to optimize that on road and off-road performance, contrary to popular belief they go hand in hand. Show me a vehicle that doesn’t drive well on the street and it has major performance issues in the dirt the dirt just covers up the poor handling.

The “truck arms” as nascar called them when they used them, were used by all GM 2wd trucks from 1950-1972 and were an option. Again they are just OK. If doing the work do a similar 3 link/track bar set up as the front or step up a little more and do a triangulated 4 link and really optimize both on and off road performance.

If you feel like practicing and making some improvement use the old school set ups or go modern and have better performance.
The bus I ride is so short it is a yellow Smart Car full of squirrels, monkeys and clowns.

1970 J2500 Resto Mod
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewt ... 12&t=21395

1974 Bronco “Broncno”
https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threa ... st-3411909

sierrablue
Posts: 1208
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:02 pm
Location: MN/CO

Re: Anyone have 3 link / 4 Link build threads, also airbags?

Post by sierrablue »

Yeah, I can see that. My dad's '70s F100 4x4 rides really well and is pretty much unstoppable in anything we've put it through. Handles fine, rides well with 200 lbs of steel in the back (otherwise the back is too rough), tracks straight. Probably depends what you're doing with it though.

OK, I wasn't sure how the GM stuff was set up. My uncle's trailer has it, but all I really knew was that it has coils and rides well.

I mean, if you REALLY want it to ride perfectly, coil-overs and a fully independent suspension (with long control arms, so it still has plenty of flex) are always an option...

I think it mostly depends on your price range and what you're doing with it. On the street, fairly cheap, the 3-link stuff ought to work. Hard-core off-road and stuff you'll probably want a better setup.
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.
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Yeller
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Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:54 am
Location: Rogers County Oklahoma

Re: Anyone have 3 link / 4 Link build threads, also airbags?

Post by Yeller »

You are correct about the ride with IFS/IRS but not necessarily needed to have your cake and eat it too comfortable.

Cost of some of that can be greatly reduced by being creative. On my build had I made the spring towers and cups I’d have less than $400 in all of the new parts. That’s new shocks, new springs, new replacement JK control arms and parts for the track bar. Had I scrounged some take off parts, I could have saved significantly more.
The bus I ride is so short it is a yellow Smart Car full of squirrels, monkeys and clowns.

1970 J2500 Resto Mod
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewt ... 12&t=21395

1974 Bronco “Broncno”
https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threa ... st-3411909
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Stuka
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Re: Anyone have 3 link / 4 Link build threads, also airbags?

Post by Stuka »

Dave (from dirt every day) just posted a video of putting airbags on his YJ. He really digs airbags, and also has them on his Mazda crawler.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ
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Yeller
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Location: Rogers County Oklahoma

Re: Anyone have 3 link / 4 Link build threads, also airbags?

Post by Yeller »

I always find air bags interesting. I’ve played with them but I have found the spring rate tends to be very progressive making the ride rough off road and at times on road. When you have big hits that need up travel to absorb the spring rate rapidly and aggressively ramps up limiting that up travel. I prefer much more linear spring rates of a coil spring and some of the late model leaf springs. There’s a reason you never see air springs used in off road race cars of any discipline. The exception being chase trucks, they have high payloads and need that spring rate change under compression to compensate for the payload.

Now all of that being said there is an exception to that experience, that is ORI struts. They are designed as a strut and work very, very well.
The bus I ride is so short it is a yellow Smart Car full of squirrels, monkeys and clowns.

1970 J2500 Resto Mod
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewt ... 12&t=21395

1974 Bronco “Broncno”
https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threa ... st-3411909
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Stuka
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Re: Anyone have 3 link / 4 Link build threads, also airbags?

Post by Stuka »

Yeller wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:31 pm I always find air bags interesting. I’ve played with them but I have found the spring rate tends to be very progressive making the ride rough off road and at times on road.
Yeah, I think airbags work best with something that is either really light, or pretty heavy. A light vehicle doesn't need as much air pressure. So they are less likely to hit that critical pressure that makes really stiff when compressed. And heavy vehicles for the reason you state.

Being able to change the ride height is cool. Though that also really changes the spring rate and limits down travel when raised up.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

sierrablue
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Re: Anyone have 3 link / 4 Link build threads, also airbags?

Post by sierrablue »

Yeller wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 3:12 pm You are correct about the ride with IFS/IRS but not necessarily needed to have your cake and eat it too comfortable.

Cost of some of that can be greatly reduced by being creative. On my build had I made the spring towers and cups I’d have less than $400 in all of the new parts. That’s new shocks, new springs, new replacement JK control arms and parts for the track bar. Had I scrounged some take off parts, I could have saved significantly more.
Right, I know the independent stuff isn't cheap, and isn't always needed, but hey, you'll be able to laugh at the other Jeep guys on washboards ;)

It's awesome that you managed to do that for so little.
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.
User avatar

Yeller
Posts: 1521
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:54 am
Location: Rogers County Oklahoma

Re: Anyone have 3 link / 4 Link build threads, also airbags?

Post by Yeller »

It’s all in being creative and finding the right parts for the right price and willing to do the extra shop time. I’m in a different income bracket than you and opted to purchase the spring towers and cups, those are nearly $300 more that were not in that total, but I weighed it as a full day in the shop making those 4 pieces. Having done so many link conversions in the past for profit I found that I needed to incorporate as many prefabbed brackets as possible to save time, the time saved was worth more than the cost of the brackets.
The bus I ride is so short it is a yellow Smart Car full of squirrels, monkeys and clowns.

1970 J2500 Resto Mod
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewt ... 12&t=21395

1974 Bronco “Broncno”
https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threa ... st-3411909

sierrablue
Posts: 1208
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:02 pm
Location: MN/CO

Re: Anyone have 3 link / 4 Link build threads, also airbags?

Post by sierrablue »

Also, from what I can tell on the airbags, the real trick is getting the right pressure in them. The way I understand it, you want to run them empty (or near empty) when you're cruising around, and not hauling anything, and then when you're loaded down, you can pump them up however much you need to (as long as the PSI is like 300 or less) to accomplish the ride you want.

I could be totally wrong, but that's how I understand it, based mostly off the offroad guys on YouTube. Hey, I'm YouTube certified--it must be right ;)
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.
User avatar

Stuka
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Re: Anyone have 3 link / 4 Link build threads, also airbags?

Post by Stuka »

sierrablue wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 11:52 am Also, from what I can tell on the airbags, the real trick is getting the right pressure in them. The way I understand it, you want to run them empty (or near empty) when you're cruising around, and not hauling anything, and then when you're loaded down, you can pump them up however much you need to (as long as the PSI is like 300 or less) to accomplish the ride you want.

I could be totally wrong, but that's how I understand it, based mostly off the offroad guys on YouTube. Hey, I'm YouTube certified--it must be right ;)
You are thinking of airbag helpers.

We are referencing using airbags as the primary load carrier. No coil or leaf spring.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ
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