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What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work.

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:04 am
by [ O o \\|// o O ]
I wan't to be able to do every thing needed to build 4x4s and trailers. (Mild and stainless steel, and aluminum)
I keep looking at the Millermatic 211 but at around a grand I can't really justify that kind of money. I like that Miller welders are Made in the U.S!
The MM 140 would probably be more than enough for several hundred less and it has most of the same features.
Then I look at Craftsman welders and for the $800 the MM 140 cost I can get completely set up at Sears. The Craftsman welder probably isn't built in the U.S. and I know it's not the same quality of machine but it's less than $500 and I can get consumables for a Craftsman anywhere seven days a week instead of only dealing with commercial welding suppliers.
The MM 140 and the Craftsan are 110V machines. The MM 211 is dual voltage, 110/220V
I'm having a really tough time with this, any reccomendations?

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:53 am
by srobertsfsj
I just bought an Eastwood 175 MIG and I love it. Will do up to 5/16" mild and stainless steel and up to 1/4" aluminum. Comes with a spool gun too. I am new to welding so I don't have much to compare to but my buddy who has been welding for years says its a very good unit.

Its $499

http://www.eastwood.com/mig-welders-175 ... l-gun.html

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:37 pm
by ChiefBigB
This thread had some good info. Hope it helps.

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthre ... ht=welders

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:13 pm
by [ O o \\|// o O ]
srobertsfsj wrote:I just bought an Eastwood 175 MIG and I love it. Will do up to 5/16" mild and stainless steel and up to 1/4" aluminum. Comes with a spool gun too. I am new to welding so I don't have much to compare to but my buddy who has been welding for years says its a very good unit.

Its $499

http://www.eastwood.com/mig-welders-175 ... l-gun.html
I really like the looks of the Eastwood stuff and it seems like they offer the best bang for the buck but availability of parts really worries me.

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:24 pm
by [ O o \\|// o O ]
ChiefBigB wrote:This thread had some good info. Hope it helps.

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthre ... ht=welders
I read through the thread and now I know my local Miller distributor at Norco was telling the truth when I asked him to compare his offerings(Miller, Lincoln and Hobart) to the competition. Nice to know he was honest with me.
Seems like no one has a bad word toward Miller other than price.
There's a ton of info in that thread, I think I'll read it again.
Thanks for the link.

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:42 pm
by Mr. Goatman
I have a Hobart 210 and have been really pleased with it. It has done everything I reasonably expect it to do. That being said, if I do it again I would suck it up and buy the Miller. The quality and parts will be important years down the road. I have heard good things about the Eastwood. A spool gun would be good if you intend to weld AL or if you go from inside the shop to outside (it's nice to run flux core in the spool gun outside). For the price it's hard to beat an old Lincoln 220 arc.

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:11 pm
by Tad
srobertsfsj wrote:I just bought an Eastwood 175 MIG and I love it. Will do up to 5/16" mild and stainless steel and up to 1/4" aluminum. Comes with a spool gun too. I am new to welding so I don't have much to compare to but my buddy who has been welding for years says its a very good unit.

Its $499

http://www.eastwood.com/mig-welders-175 ... l-gun.html
I read some very interesting reviews on welding web.
I love my Gen-1 Miller DVI, been abusing that since 2005 and it's still rocking hard.

I think I will shoot the Eastwood rep that offered the 30 day free trial and see if he will try that with a bunch of high school welders.
They can kill dam near anything in 30 days.

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:29 pm
by REDONE
[ O o \|// o O ] wrote: Seems like no one has a bad word toward Miller other than price.
There's a ton of info in that thread, I think I'll read it again.
Thanks for the link.

My primary wirefeed at work is a Gen1 Miller DVI. I convinced work to buy it after hearing how much Tad likes his. The 211 with MVP took it's place in Millers line up. If this is remotely within your budget it's the one I'd recommend provided you have a shop to use it in. At 74lbs you don't want to be hauling it up and down stairs. Some things that are better between the 211/DVI, the 211 can be hand carried (even though it's heavy) while the DVI is built onto it's own cart and the handle is designed to drag the machine around, not pick it up. The 211 is more efficient with higher output on 230 than the DVI. The one good thing about the DVI over the 211 is that it comes with a built in bottle cart, you have to buy that separate with the 211.

I get the feeling you've moved on from the Craftsman idea already but I'll say this anyways. Craftsman has changed suppliers for their MIG welding machines three times in the last decade (from Lincoln/Century to Clarke to ?Forney?)and never carried any parts in-store or in-warehouse aside from consumables in my experience. I have no problem with any of the source brands, even Clarke is European and I like my Forney mini stick transformer.
http://compare.ebay.com/like/3206838465 ... s&var=sbar
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-mig-weld ... ockType=G1

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-wire-fee ... ockType=G2
http://www.popscreen.com/p/MTI5ODM2MjEz ... mprovement

Developing a relationship with your LWS (local welding supplier) has it benefits. At first they may approach you with a "don't kill yourself" kind of feel, but after a while you can start to get deals on gas, freebies and my favorite, test drives of new machines. ;)

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:53 pm
by jaber
I bought the 211 2 years ago and have done everything from 1/4 plate to body work. My biggest complaint about it, is that when I'm doing a lot of heavy welding, it will temp out and shut down for 10 mins. I got the spool gun, but have not tried it yet. It is an AWESOME unit. Spend the extra, it will pay off for years to come. You get what you buy... ;)

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:12 pm
by Dirtmonkey
When my Miller 135 decided to take the big dirt nap (dead short), I picked up a cheap Campbell Hausfeld MIG and an ancient Lincoln 225 AC/DC. I really prefer to run stick for ΒΌ" and up, plus I can run my scratch start TIG rig off the old Lincoln (aluminum is out with this method).

From what your plans sound like, a bigger machine than the 140 would be in order in a hurry. A 211 is probably the bare minimum, and a good choice allowing for 230v or 110v input.

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:08 pm
by [ O o \\|// o O ]
REDONE wrote:
[ O o \|// o O ] wrote: Seems like no one has a bad word toward Miller other than price.
There's a ton of info in that thread, I think I'll read it again.
Thanks for the link.

My primary wirefeed at work is a Gen1 Miller DVI. I convinced work to buy it after hearing how much Tad likes his. The 211 with MVP took it's place in Millers line up. If this is remotely within your budget it's the one I'd recommend provided you have a shop to use it in. At 74lbs you don't want to be hauling it up and down stairs. Some things that are better between the 211/DVI, the 211 can be hand carried (even though it's heavy) while the DVI is built onto it's own cart and the handle is designed to drag the machine around, not pick it up. The 211 is more efficient with higher output on 230 than the DVI. The one good thing about the DVI over the 211 is that it comes with a built in bottle cart, you have to buy that separate with the 211.

I get the feeling you've moved on from the Craftsman idea already but I'll say this anyways. Craftsman has changed suppliers for their MIG welding machines three times in the last decade (from Lincoln/Century to Clarke to ?Forney?)and never carried any parts in-store or in-warehouse aside from consumables in my experience. I have no problem with any of the source brands, even Clarke is European and I like my Forney mini stick transformer.
http://compare.ebay.com/like/3206838465 ... s&var=sbar
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-mig-weld ... ockType=G1

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-wire-fee ... ockType=G2
http://www.popscreen.com/p/MTI5ODM2MjEz ... mprovement

Developing a relationship with your LWS (local welding supplier) has it benefits. At first they may approach you with a "don't kill yourself" kind of feel, but after a while you can start to get deals on gas, freebies and my favorite, test drives of new machines. ;)

Changing manufacturers every few years isn't the kind of track record I'm looking for. Thanks for letting me know.
I thought I had talked my self into a gas-less machine but I need it if I ever want to weld aluminum the way I read it.
I expected the guys at the LWS to be dismissive towards me since I know nothing but they took the to get me the info I need even though I don't understand it all yet.

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:26 pm
by REDONE
[ O o \|// o O ] wrote:
Changing manufacturers every few years isn't the kind of track record I'm looking for. Thanks for letting me know.
I thought I had talked my self into a gas-less machine but I need it if I ever want to weld aluminum the way I read it.
I expected the guys at the LWS to be dismissive towards me since I know nothing but they took the to get me the info I need even though I don't understand it all yet.
When I post in welding threads I don't try to be the "know-it-all-guru" in fact I know I'm not, Tad is a welding teacher! When I approached him about my yet-unfinished welding write up (62 pages in the making for part 1 - Processes) he asked me if I was going to talk about transfer method. While I know globular, spray, pulse spray and short-circuit, I never give any thought to transfer method when I'm actually welding, just my weld pool and fillet. His knowledge, skill and experience is exemplary of MANY here that are more guru-worthy than myself.

Yet I still post in these threads because I DO weld professionally every day welding the exact same materials, thicknesses, and ways that the OPs of most of these threads want to. I would love to see the creativity and fabrication potential of every member here to be expressed. My goal when I post is to help folks get a machine they will actually use and there's two ends to that spectrum. On one end you may have a guy that wants to boat-side his entire undercarriage looking at a HF 90amp stick welder. Can it be done? You betcha! But the guy will spend so much money on 5/32" welding rods that he could buy a HF wirefeeder and all the wire to do the same job in half the time, with no regard to the learning curve of low amp stick welding. On the other end of the spectrum (and far more common from what I've seen in my life, though not necessarily here) you have a guy with a big shop, high voltage panel, and enough money to get set up with a big powersource and all the bells and whistles. Then they hire me under the table with my little wirefeeder to come out and fix all their horse gates in place because there's no way to drag this huge barely used machine around to where they need it. Then they hire me to hardface all the tractor buckets because the shop is too full of crap to fit them in. Then they try to sell me their barely used rediculous $9000 ship building rig at half price.

A lot of what I see in this community is folks say "I wish I would have got the bigger machine from the get go". Is it true? Do people outgrow their machines? Yes, they do. BUT, they had a very good reason for buying the smaller machine in the first place that they have forgotten. The bigger machine's price was not justified at that time while the smaller machine fit their immediate needs(wants). If they had waited to save up for the bigger machine, they probably wouldn't have a welding machine at all today. Something else would have gotten that money and those skills that outgrew the little welder they did buy never would have grown at all. We all know it, we just can't prove it because it's a "what-if". As you have expressed an interest in developing your welding SKILL (talents you are born with, SKILL is cultivated) I want you to get a welder you will use, not just have.

Obviously the 211 is the cat's pajamas for your intentions. It'll give you everything you want right now plus some room to grow. The elephant in the room is that you can outgrow that too. In fact, I'd say it's less than halfway between where you are and where you want to be, and even then not necessarily in the right direction. You may find that for deep penetration on heavy material SMAW is still industry standard for a reason. You may also find that while EXTREMELY time consuming, a good TIG set up will join aluminum cans as well as 1" steel plate. You don't know where your welding journey will lead you, all you know right now is where it starts and a 110v wirefeed with MIG capabilities will get you started.

If the MM140 is in your price range, but leaves you with enough money for one welding glove and a goofy shield you have to hold in front of your face while you save up for a spool of flux core, then I say go even cheaper. Get a Harbor Freight if that's what you have to do in order to get set up with an auto darkening hood, gloves, consumables, bottle, gas, regulator, wire brushes, chipping hammer and a pair of welpers. There's a whole gambit in between HF and Miller, and I'm as loyal to Campbell Hausfeld now as when I posted in that IFSJA thread, but I don't claim them to be better than Eastwood, Everlast, Forney, Clarke, etc. They've just been really good to me so I keep buying from them. My current hobby rig, the CH Pro125 is easily modified to take a Tweco spoolgun, comes with a all-metal drive deck, spiral wound wire liner, detachable work lead, and the power setting switch is just a detented cam that triggers a series of microswitches (VERY robust design!). I've got 12# of wire through it (6 2# spools) already and it hasn't had a single hick-up.

Regardless of what you pick, I hope to see some crappy n00b beads in the near future. ;)

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:26 pm
by pcoplin
The Miller/Hobart 140 is a very good machine and could build an entire Jeep (except like inner Cs) with 100% CO2.

However, for the price the Lincoln 175 or 180 is an awesome welder. Very forgiving. You have to prep perfectly with the 140, and double pass on the larger stuff.

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:05 pm
by serehill
No where's near a welder I am totally an amature. I have a Lincioln 150 I use & for my limited ability. I can do pretty well. I assume I'm more the norm. It was affordable & does what I need to do. The bottom line is to get one with gas capability. A flux welder really stinks if you're a novice & a gas welder will make a lot better welder out of you. I can't compete with these guys & I'll never weld a 24" boat hull LOL but this works for me. Nor do I need to.
Almost everything including the panel weld up of the windows on my Cherk was done with the lincoln perfectly. Miller is a great commercial welder & I guess if you have the bucks Cool. I wanted a package welder gas system & plasma cutter good enough to do what I wanted so I went this way thinking I would get a better one later on. It is very clear now this one does anything I'll ever do. I would buy it again.

Mine is very portable easy to get parts for. At my age I don't need a ton piece of equipment to haul around. Agree I wouldn't use it professionally but I,m no professional.

It's all about what your going to do with it. I did buy all mine used but have way less than a grand in everything.

IMHO My 2 cents

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:55 pm
by hutcho
REDONE wrote:
[ O o \|// o O ] wrote:
Changing manufacturers every few years isn't the kind of track record I'm looking for. Thanks for letting me know.
I thought I had talked my self into a gas-less machine but I need it if I ever want to weld aluminum the way I read it.
I expected the guys at the LWS to be dismissive towards me since I know nothing but they took the to get me the info I need even though I don't understand it all yet.
When I post in welding threads I don't try to be the "know-it-all-guru" in fact I know I'm not, Tad is a welding teacher! When I approached him about my yet-unfinished welding write up (62 pages in the making for part 1 - Processes) he asked me if I was going to talk about transfer method. While I know globular, spray, pulse spray and short-circuit, I never give any thought to transfer method when I'm actually welding, just my weld pool and fillet. His knowledge, skill and experience is exemplary of MANY here that are more guru-worthy than myself.

Yet I still post in these threads because I DO weld professionally every day welding the exact same materials, thicknesses, and ways that the OPs of most of these threads want to. I would love to see the creativity and fabrication potential of every member here to be expressed. My goal when I post is to help folks get a machine they will actually use and there's two ends to that spectrum. On one end you may have a guy that wants to boat-side his entire undercarriage looking at a HF 90amp stick welder. Can it be done? You betcha! But the guy will spend so much money on 5/32" welding rods that he could buy a HF wirefeeder and all the wire to do the same job in half the time, with no regard to the learning curve of low amp stick welding. On the other end of the spectrum (and far more common from what I've seen in my life, though not necessarily here) you have a guy with a big shop, high voltage panel, and enough money to get set up with a big powersource and all the bells and whistles. Then they hire me under the table with my little wirefeeder to come out and fix all their horse gates in place because there's no way to drag this huge barely used machine around to where they need it. Then they hire me to hardface all the tractor buckets because the shop is too full of crap to fit them in. Then they try to sell me their barely used rediculous $9000 ship building rig at half price.

A lot of what I see in this community is folks say "I wish I would have got the bigger machine from the get go". Is it true? Do people outgrow their machines? Yes, they do. BUT, they had a very good reason for buying the smaller machine in the first place that they have forgotten. The bigger machine's price was not justified at that time while the smaller machine fit their immediate needs(wants). If they had waited to save up for the bigger machine, they probably wouldn't have a welding machine at all today. Something else would have gotten that money and those skills that outgrew the little welder they did buy never would have grown at all. We all know it, we just can't prove it because it's a "what-if". As you have expressed an interest in developing your welding SKILL (talents you are born with, SKILL is cultivated) I want you to get a welder you will use, not just have.

Obviously the 211 is the cat's pajamas for your intentions. It'll give you everything you want right now plus some room to grow. The elephant in the room is that you can outgrow that too. In fact, I'd say it's less than halfway between where you are and where you want to be, and even then not necessarily in the right direction. You may find that for deep penetration on heavy material SMAW is still industry standard for a reason. You may also find that while EXTREMELY time consuming, a good TIG set up will join aluminum cans as well as 1" steel plate. You don't know where your welding journey will lead you, all you know right now is where it starts and a 110v wirefeed with MIG capabilities will get you started.

If the MM140 is in your price range, but leaves you with enough money for one welding glove and a goofy shield you have to hold in front of your face while you save up for a spool of flux core, then I say go even cheaper. Get a Harbor Freight if that's what you have to do in order to get set up with an auto darkening hood, gloves, consumables, bottle, gas, regulator, wire brushes, chipping hammer and a pair of welpers. There's a whole gambit in between HF and Miller, and I'm as loyal to Campbell Hausfeld now as when I posted in that IFSJA thread, but I don't claim them to be better than Eastwood, Everlast, Forney, Clarke, etc. They've just been really good to me so I keep buying from them. My current hobby rig, the CH Pro125 is easily modified to take a Tweco spoolgun, comes with a all-metal drive deck, spiral wound wire liner, detachable work lead, and the power setting switch is just a detented cam that triggers a series of microswitches (VERY robust design!). I've got 12# of wire through it (6 2# spools) already and it hasn't had a single hick-up.

Regardless of what you pick, I hope to see some crappy n00b beads in the near future. ;)
Is your welding thread up on ifsja now? I havent been checking....

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:12 pm
by goldhammer
I have an older Power Mate 225 amp. Made by Hobart. Will handle up to .045 wire and 3/8 in a single pass. Can't use any more due to defibulator implant. You could build a carrier for the Navy with it. Fabbed a loot of stuff and put on a lot of panels on cars at work with her....

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:28 pm
by [ O o \\|// o O ]
serehill wrote:No where's near a welder I am totally an amature. I have a Lincioln 150 I use & for my limited ability. I can do pretty well. I assume I'm more the norm. It was affordable & does what I need to do. The bottom line is to get one with gas capability. A flux welder really stinks if you're a novice & a gas welder will make a lot better welder out of you. I can't compete with these guys & I'll never weld a 24" boat hull LOL but this works for me. Nor do I need to.
Almost everything including the panel weld up of the windows on my Cherk was done with the lincoln perfectly. Miller is a great commercial welder & I guess if you have the bucks Cool. I wanted a package welder gas system & plasma cutter good enough to do what I wanted so I went this way thinking I would get a better one later on. It is very clear now this one does anything I'll ever do. I would buy it again.

Mine is very portable easy to get parts for. At my age I don't need a ton piece of equipment to haul around. Agree I wouldn't use it professionally but I,m no professional.

It's all about what your going to do with it. I did buy all mine used but have way less than a grand in everything.

IMHO My 2 cents
What are you refering to here, "a package welder gas system & plasma cutter"? I've looked around for a combo package to see if I could get both at a discount but the only one I could find was from Eastwood. Do you have a link?

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:58 pm
by Mars
I always enjoy reading these welding threads. I bought myself a harbor freight welder, and I've had nothing but issues. I actually took some basic welding classes way back in high school and a little more at the JVS when I was doing auto body there.

I hate to blame the equipment until I rule out my rusty hands.

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:30 pm
by REDONE
Mars wrote:I always enjoy reading these welding threads. I bought myself a harbor freight welder, and I've had nothing but issues. I actually took some basic welding classes way back in high school and a little more at the JVS when I was doing auto body there.

I hate to blame the equipment until I rule out my rusty hands.
The single biggest issue with the HF welders, especially the blue ones (the black ones I haven't played with yet) is they shipped them with the torch lead folded over every 8-12 inches or so then they zip-tie it like that. The wire liner gets so kinked that erratic wirefeed and birdnesting is chronic.

Re: What welder would you recommend for general 4x4 fab work

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:33 pm
by [ O o \\|// o O ]
Mars wrote:I always enjoy reading these welding threads. I bought myself a harbor freight welder, and I've had nothing but issues. I actually took some basic welding classes way back in high school and a little more at the JVS when I was doing auto body there.

I hate to blame the equipment until I rule out my rusty hands.
I've been reading welding threads where ever I can find them and HF seems to be a crap shoot. For every welder that has had no problems there are several others who have had nothing but problems.
I really can't imagine walking in to my local HF and getting welding questions answered by the guys and gals stocking shelves and running the registers. They're very pleasant and they try but no one in the store seems to have any real working knowledge of the tools they're selling.
I'm going to have a ton of questions I'm sure so tech support is a high priority for me. I don't want to doubt the quality of my machine, if there's a problem I want it to be me because that can be overcome with practice but I poor quality machine isn't going to get better with use!