Full Size Jeep Network

Not sure if this belongs here or on a build thread...

After years of watching and waiting, my wife and I finally picked up our first FSJ: an 87 Grand Wagoneer. We got lucky and found one in good working condition. It's high mileage--200k neat and clean on the odometer. The engine was rebuilt 17 years ago when the clock read 139k. There was a lot of other work done at that time, like water pump, motor mounts, carb rebuild, fuel pump, exhaust, but I realize that work is now pretty old.

More recently, the air conditioner was recharged, PO installed new shocks, and the fluids have all been changed or taken care of.

But, this GW cranks right up, runs strong, seems to stay cool, and fit our needs. I am thrilled at how little rust there is--we picked a GW that's been taken good care of. I have undertaken exactly one project, which is to replace the rear bench seat belt that had come apart.

Known functional gremlins:

- Fuel gauge best functions when the Jeep is still and on level ground. Otherwise the needle bobs up and down with the car
- Oil pressure gauge hits 80psi when accelerating, sits about 40psi when idling at a stop. Need to see if it's accurate or not
- Battery bracket is missing and currently the battery is held in place by a heavy bungee strap
- Four wheel drive doesn't seem to be working. I hear the vacuum swoosh when I slide the switch, but the lamp on the dash stays dark.
- On a related note, attempted to slide shifter into 4-LO, but it won't budge
- One Marchal fog lamp cracked; neither work when I flick the switch
- Driver rear window does not operate
- Driver rear door lock also not very cooperative
- Tailgate window operational, but only from interior switch, not from rear/exterior lock
- Interior cabin lights only come on when one of the rear doors is opened. Front doors don't activate cabin lights
- Power side view mirrors don't work
- Parking brake functions, but doesn't stay put--just pops back up

Known cosmetic gremlins:

- Driver rear door arm rest seems to be held in place by sheet metal screws (probably explains the two Dr/Rear issues above)
- Haven't checked the well nuts (and not sure how) on the roof rack but not planning to park in the rain til I do
- Woodgrain vinyl isn't in great shape, but paint and body are solid. Paint was redone sometime in the last 10 years.
- Rear wing needs woodgrain vinyl badly
- Front seats cracked, currently under some cheap seat covers. Rear bench seats in good/original condition
- Carpet/mats original and in okay condition but could use cleaning/replacement


The reason I posted here and not in a build thread is that my wife and I definitely want to drive and enjoy this Jeep rather than park it in the garage for the next 12 months while I regret the time I don't have to restore it. We aren't looking to have a fully refreshed specimen, but rather a drive-able and fun car to enjoy with our kids. I've already bought an extra set of tools to keep in the back of the GW, because we know at some point we'll need them.

My father-in-law and I are going to do a more solid once-over this week while we have time off for Thanksgiving. Happy to report back here and share.

Oil or wd40 the gears on the parking brake. Use a flashlight.

Usually easier to shift into low range while rolling slowly. Very hard to do at a dead stop, usually.

I'd wager the 4x4 is functional and the dash light is inop.
Clean the window switches first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21eudxYw7MI

Welcome to the club! You've come to the right place for advice and encouragement. You'll have a lot of fun (and some frustrations) driving around an iconic piece of Americana.

the parking brake is a real annoyance... is the braking operational, when you keep your foot on it, is the truck rolling or not, as said above it can be as simple as needing a little lube on the hand mechanism or regrinding/cleaning the teeth... or a overstretched cable if you cannot hold the truck while keeping your foot on the foot brake, check the integrity of the sheath right under the driver side, this area is subject to a lot of spraying , the sheath will fail and stretched. I did mine a month ago... it is a 2 person job and the astute use of a pair of visegrip

letank wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:12 pm the parking brake is a real annoyance... is the braking operational, when you keep your foot on it, is the truck rolling or not, as said above it can be as simple as needing a little lube on the hand mechanism or regrinding/cleaning the teeth...

The good news is that the brake is operational--I can stop the truck from rolling by holding it down with my foot. It just doesn't stay down. Once I get the obligational turkey stuff out of the way, I hope to find some time to poke around.

dodgerammit wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:44 am I'd wager the 4x4 is functional and the dash light is inop.
Clean the window switches first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21eudxYw7MI

I am amazed at your patience (if that's you in the video) with those window switches. I'm going to have to practice zen to get there. This Jeep will teach me...

Also, when I take it down to the garage, there's a good gravel pad where I'm going to try testing out the 4x4.

Was showing some company my GW this afternoon, and had some time to crawl under it a little. Still dripping a little coolant when I park it, and think I need to take a look at the bottom hose from the radiator when I get it down to the pit.




But while I was under looking at the bottom of the radiator, I noticed something that's got me more concerned:



I'm not sure what that part is in the middle specifically--looks like it attaches the steering shaft to the power steering assembly, and it looks to be in rough shape. I want to take a closer look under there when I can.

In the meantime, it's pretty apparent there's been a lot of grease and gunk up under here for a long time.

That is the "rag joint" for the steering. It is not difficult to replace. It looks like a side section from a tire when by itself. The design purpose I believe was to remove some to vibration and shock from the steering column and the steering wheel. It's a standard part (keep in mind your steering is a Saginaw system i.e. GM). Some people choose to switch over to the universal lower joint section from the first generation of XJs.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NDP6301 ... g+coupling



Please double check part against the original before installing, but i believe the above is correct for your application.

Fleet Fox

freehold wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:46 am

dodgerammit wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:44 am I'd wager the 4x4 is functional and the dash light is inop.
Clean the window switches first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21eudxYw7MI

I am amazed at your patience (if that's you in the video) with those window switches. I'm going to have to practice zen to get there. This Jeep will teach me...

Also, when I take it down to the garage, there's a good gravel pad where I'm going to try testing out the 4x4.

I can't take credit for the video. I did clean and completely rewire all of the window and door lock circuits on mine with relays.

FLeetFox wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:50 pm That is the "rag joint" for the steering. It is not difficult to replace. It looks like a side section from a tire when by itself. The design purpose I believe was to remove some to vibration and shock from the steering column and the steering wheel. It's a standard part (keep in mind your steering is a Saginaw system i.e. GM). Some people choose to switch over to the universal lower joint section from the first generation of XJs.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NDP6301 ... g+coupling



Please double check part against the original before installing, but i believe the above is correct for your application.

Fleet Fox

Thanks, Fleet Fox. I did some searching around on BJs, and I found a similar part--although to be honest, the NAPA part you listed looks much closer to what I have than the BJs part. It makes me feel better that the NAPA part has that bent metal piece on it--I was worried something had gotten mangled up along the way.

However, the BJs product description (for this part: http://www.bjsoffroad.com/Steering-Box- ... _1857.html) does note that it's a good solution for if your steering is sloppy. Mine is, and I just wasn't sure how much of that was my Jeep, or how much of it was the legendary vague steering in GWs.

Mine definitely needs a front end alignment, though. Front pass. tire is wearing on the outside edge. I might have the tire place have a look at the steering components when I get that done to see what's what. Should I have any expectations that an 87 GW will hold an alignment with most of the original stuff in place? Or is this a futile effort?

Nothing is technically futile on these trucks, it's just a function of cost.... But think of it this way, it IS a 30 year old truck and maintenance does tend to fall off. My suggestion would be to break into pieces, system by system and attack it in that manner. The tire wear you are describing points to a different issue, tie rod ends, perhaps ball joints maybe wheel bearings. Try jacking the vehicle up on that corner. with hands at 12 and 6 o'clock, see if the wheel rocks in and out. to can do the same at 3 and 9. if you are getting rocking, observe the spindle where it meets the axle, (the ball joints). If the spindle is rocking with the wheel, ball joint issue. If the spindle doesn't move, wheel bearings. both can be done in your garage with basic tools and loaner tools from advance/autozone/ o'reilly's etc.. it is time consuming, but there are countless you tube videos on the subject (google dana 44, gm 10 bolt they all work the same way).

Leave the rag joint for now unless the stuffing is coming out of it. you can check it's wear by having someone turn the wheel while you observe. if the shafts all turn without much slop, it's ok for now. Sounds like the lower steering components may need more attention sooner.

Again, my comments are general since I'm not there and this is a internet diagnosis, but it's a place to start. If you take it in for an alignment, the should not align it (charge you) if there are worn out steering components. The estimate for a shop replacing some of the components above would give you sticker shock and inspire you to get the wrenches out IMO.

Like i said, one system at a time. Post up and let us know what you find.

Fleet Fox

Usually we haul our kids out to take Christmas card photos the day after Thanksgiving. Today, we hauled them around in the GW. Although we avoided putting a Christmas tree on the roof rack, we did yield and put a wreath up front. I'll spare you the pics of our kids but leave you with this:

The good news: the last month was pretty busy at work--it's always good to be busy/needed at work, right?

The bad news: busy-ness described above, plus holiday obligations, plus general lack of daylight have meant very little time to spend with muh Jeep.

I did get a chance recently to poke around regarding the issue with the 4x4. I'd taken it out to a gravel road to see if the four-wheel was engaging; only two tires spun when I punched it, though. My father-in-law had asked about how the system worked, and I explained it was on a vacuum. We looked at the line from the dash through the firewall, though, and realized that the vacuum line to the reservoir was pretty rotten. In fact, the whole thing was so brittle that one wiggle on my part inadvertently broke the nipple off the reservoir. No bueno.

Some searching around on this forum suggested there was a readily available equivalent at Advance, and my father-in-law thinks he has a good one down at his garage, so later this week we'll swap it in and replace some of the old vacuum lines. I don't harbor any thoughts that this simple fix will give me back the 4x4, but it'll be a start.

Question for the forum: How much of a pain is it to replace all the hardware holding the roof rack on? I am paranoid about ruining my still-in-good-shape headliner by getting caught in a rain storm.

freehold wrote: Question for the forum: How much of a pain is it to replace all the hardware holding the roof rack on? I am paranoid about ruining my still-in-good-shape headliner by getting caught in a rain storm.

I recently replaced gaskets and the hardware for both roof rack and rails there. Took maybe an hour to get it all off, clean and put it back together with new hardware. So it’s pretty easy and straightforward. However, I didn’t have headliner installed - so add some time to take it off and put it back together after

Providence gave me an afternoon at my father-in-law's garage. We spent a good amount of time poking around and looking underneath (he has a pit, which is so, so convenient).

I *think* we have the 4x4 fixed. The vacuum reservoir went in without problem, and we replaced several lines, including the one to the 4x4 relay switch on the dash. However, with one of us underneath and one of us above the car, we noticed the switch didn't quite have enough oomph to flip the car into four-wheel drive, so we lubed up the switches at the transfer case, wiggled and worked them a bit, then hooked everything back up. Out on the gravel, I got it engaged in 4-wheel lo with very little difficulty, and I am assuming the 4-wheel hi works as well.

I say assuming, because the dash light isn't illuminating when the four-wheel is engaged. I'm not sure if it's the bulb or if there's something fouled up with the electrical relay between the back of the transfer case and the dash. I'm also not sure if this is really worth messing with that much, but welcome your thoughts.

We started to get into fluid changes for the transmission, transfer case, and front/rear diffs, but we realized we weren't nearly prepared, and I thought I might come here for advice. What kind of fluid do you use for your transfer case/diffs? And when you change out the fluid, do you have to change the gasket?

Also--anyone know if this Jeep has an electric fuel pump? Does anyone have a favorite replacement?

I grabbed a photo of the tag on my transfer case:

Dextron III ATF, if you can find it, otherwise go to the next number, some will recommend synthetic, I am sticking to the dinosaur because there are always some leaks of unknown origin...

Electric fuel pump, yes, it eases the restart after a few weeks of no use, I have used the carter p4070 and recently tried the edelbrock (comes in red plastic cover) from the local parts store, inexpensive at about $60ish, seems quieter, put it in an easy to swap spot. Check my link Fuel in my sig for many options

letank wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:05 am Dextron III ATF, if you can find it, otherwise go to the next number, some will recommend synthetic, I am sticking to the dinosaur because there are always some leaks of unknown origin...

Thanks--so just to clarify, you use Dex 3 in the transmission, transfer case, and diffs?

NOT in the diffs, diffs use gear oil 75w90 if towing 75w140
yes Dextron 3 for trans and TC