Next to a barn find 89 GW

[devildog80]

I get the rear axle being open, but is the front axle open as well?

Or do they buck when turning?

Can you drop the rear shaft and still get home with just the front axle working?

If I find my NP229 is not good (when I get it road worthy), thinking of dropping the TC, and replacing the 727 tail shaft with a longer one like a 2 wheel drive would use, and run my truck as a 2 wd until funds can find a 228 and manual front hubs!

Would keep me rolling

[Anvil-3]

I get the rear axle being open, but is the front axle open as well?

Or do they buck when turning?

Can you drop the rear shaft and still get home with just the front axle working?

If I find my NP229 is not good (when I get it road worthy), thinking of dropping the TC, and replacing the 727 tail shaft with a longer one like a 2 wheel drive would use, and run my truck as a 2 wd until funds can find a 228 and manual front hubs!

Would keep me rolling

Hasn’t moved under its own power in about 18 years so I can’t tell you for sure on that. However, with a np231 when in 4wd on hardball it would buck a little on turns but otherwise Ok, I’d imagine pinning the viscous coupler would result in a similar function… I’ll let y’all know when she moves, I can post the steps to pin it, it’s pretty straightforward.

I’m shooting to optimize road driving and do some very light off-road for camping etc. So I don’t care too much about full time 4wd as long as I can get out of some surprise muck I’m happy


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[dodgerammit]

A 228 has an open differential. The 229 has a limited slip differential. Pinning the coupler will lock it. So, it'll be a part time setup, not to be driven on pavement in 4wd unless there is snow and tires can slip a bit.

[devildog80]

Pinning process just posted recently on this thread, which was part of why I was asking when topic came up again here.

General FSJ
Broke rear axle at Glacier National Park
by chevelleguy

[devildog80]

So.....even if we are driving with front axle only, and relatively straight, the front axle will act like a posi-trac and bark just a little when turning say...into a driveway or something?

A 228 has an open differential. The 229 has a limited slip differential. Pinning the coupler will lock it. So, it'll be a part time setup, not to be driven on pavement in 4wd unless there is snow and tires can slip a bit.

[Stuka]

While the spec is 25, if you are seeing ten that means it still functions. And you can drive around in AWD without any real issues.

If the VC totally fails, it just acts as an open differential, like the 228 or 242. You won’t hurt anything by driving it.

So I could turn it by hand, couldn’t register on my tq wrench. I just pinned it which is reversible.

Could you clarify that a little? Like would any free spinning wheel cause me to lose power? From my understanding with the pinned coupling it would be like a 231 and I’m locked in at 50/50 power between front and rear, while still having my open differentials for slippage between wheels on the same axle


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If the VC is completely toast, it will act as an open differential while in 4WD High Range (it locks in low range). So yes, you could get stuck with one tire spinning up front. But you still have the advantage of being able to drive in AWD on the roads in rainy or snowy weather.

If you pin it, then yes, it will act like an NP208. Where 4WD High Range locks the front and rear axles to the same speed. This means you cannot use high range on dry or wet pavement. Its only usable in snow or in dirt.

On a side note, how were you testing it? The NP229 shifts from 2wd to 4wd using a vacuum motor. Just want to make sure your test was valid, and that it truly was in 4WD.

[devildog80]

Update from chevelleguy on the other thread

Pinning the coupling turns it into a part time case, just like a 208. In that configuration, if you break something in the rear, yes you can drive on the front shaft only. It’s just a cheap fix for those with a 229 that has a bad coupling. I did mine almost 20 yrs ago and it’s still kicking and I too have had to limp it home in front wheel drive after breaking a rear u-joint.

[Anvil-3]

While the spec is 25, if you are seeing ten that means it still functions. And you can drive around in AWD without any real issues.

If the VC totally fails, it just acts as an open differential, like the 228 or 242. You won’t hurt anything by driving it.

So I could turn it by hand, couldn’t register on my tq wrench. I just pinned it which is reversible.

Could you clarify that a little? Like would any free spinning wheel cause me to lose power? From my understanding with the pinned coupling it would be like a 231 and I’m locked in at 50/50 power between front and rear, while still having my open differentials for slippage between wheels on the same axle


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If the VC is completely toast, it will act as an open differential while in 4WD High Range (it locks in low range). So yes, you could get stuck with one tire spinning up front. But you still have the advantage of being able to drive in AWD on the roads in rainy or snowy weather.

If you pin it, then yes, it will act like an NP208. Where 4WD High Range locks the front and rear axles to the same speed. This means you cannot use high range on dry or wet pavement. Its only usable in snow or in dirt.

On a side note, how were you testing it? The NP229 shifts from 2wd to 4wd using a vacuum motor. Just want to make sure your test was valid, and that it truly was in 4WD.

I was testing it disassembled according to the manual, so it was the input with the coupling and output shaft of a vice and testing with a torque wrench. I guess at this point I’m unsure which way I want it… but it’s good to know I have the option of either way.

Devildog, thanks for that, I hadn’t found anything since the old post I found. I’ll have to think it through but options are good and I’m glad it holds up pinned. My fear was turning the case into a grenade.

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[Stuka]

I was testing it disassembled according to the manual, so it was the input with the coupling and output shaft of a vice and testing with a torque wrench. I guess at this point I’m unsure which way I want it… but it’s good to know I have the option of either way.

Devildog, thanks for that, I hadn’t found anything since the old post I found. I’ll have to think it through but options are good and I’m glad it holds up pinned. My fear was turning the case into a grenade.

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Ah, ok. So you already have it apart. If you do decide to pin it, you should consider installing manual locking hubs up front. They are not a requirement, but they will stop everything from spinning up front in 2wd, and prevent accidentally having 4wd on pavement.

[devildog80]

Grenade - My thought too, as it was sounding like the axle or TC would blow apart if not driven just right.

I can work with it now, until I switch out the front hubs for manual ones

So I could turn it by hand, couldn’t register on my tq wrench. I just pinned it which is reversible.

Could you clarify that a little? Like would any free spinning wheel cause me to lose power? From my understanding with the pinned coupling it would be like a 231 and I’m locked in at 50/50 power between front and rear, while still having my open differentials for slippage between wheels on the same axle


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If the VC is completely toast, it will act as an open differential while in 4WD High Range (it locks in low range). So yes, you could get stuck with one tire spinning up front. But you still have the advantage of being able to drive in AWD on the roads in rainy or snowy weather.

If you pin it, then yes, it will act like an NP208. Where 4WD High Range locks the front and rear axles to the same speed. This means you cannot use high range on dry or wet pavement. Its only usable in snow or in dirt.

On a side note, how were you testing it? The NP229 shifts from 2wd to 4wd using a vacuum motor. Just want to make sure your test was valid, and that it truly was in 4WD.

I was testing it disassembled according to the manual, so it was the input with the coupling and output shaft of a vice and testing with a torque wrench. I guess at this point I’m unsure which way I want it… but it’s good to know I have the option of either way.

Devildog, thanks for that, I hadn’t found anything since the old post I found. I’ll have to think it through but options are good and I’m glad it holds up pinned. My fear was turning the case into a grenade.

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[Anvil-3]

Just found out I got a little under 9 months to knock out this build so here’s to double time on the build.

Transfer case parts all came in, a new range fork, pads and various bearing and seals have been installed. I spent almost a whole day fighting needle bearings and my own stupidity forgetting sprockets but I got it put back together.



I realized the output shaft shim is completely missing and there’s a lot of fwd/aft play so I will need to find those.

I’m considering ignoring the vacuum shift system and buying an aftermarket twin shift because my vacuum system is rough and I prefer the positive lock of a manual shift.

I also ordered in a Lokar kickdown cable because my head has a stripped hole for the bracket for it, just done playing around with stupid stuff like that and I am not pulling the head to helicoil it or something.



Huges torque converter also came in, hopefully it will be a step up from stock (not that I’ve ever been able to drive it)

Hopefully next weekend she moves under her own power.

Cheers guys


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[Anvil-3]

Couldn’t seem to actuate the case between settings on the bench, sort of had me concerned so I opened it back up and ended up spilling all my needle bearings again

Reassembled again double checking everything and I’m just banking on the vertical orientation putting too much weight on everything to do by hand…

My only question is with the spring detent and little pill thing that goes to the “range fork posts” the TSM makes it sound like they all go in together so the detent is against the pill piece, but it’s too long to get the bolt in so I made the assumption the pill piece goes between the two posts that the forks attach to.




Did I screw this up?


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[Anvil-3]

Well, its all reassembled and getting bolted to the trans and and installed this weekend. I removed the pins in the viscous coupler in case I really screwed up on this detent issue ill just be stuck in AWD until I fix, and that's ok with me.

[Anvil-3]

It LIVES!!



Drove for the first time under its own power since around ‘04, probably should have replaced the front main seal on the trans… it seemed fine but it’s dripping from the bell housing a little. I’ll invest in a drip pan until next time I’m in there.

Sniper is running, idle real high and real rich, brakes cant really stop it unless I shift to neutral. Not sure if it’s a lack of vacuum to the brake booster, strangely high idle on the sniper or a mix of the two…

Long way still to go. My goal is to simplify and have peak reliability. Ordered a twin shifter kit to remove vacuum actuation for 4wd and I’ll probably invest in window relays as I work through the window motors which are all in-op.

Over all a big milestone I’m glad to have seen and has certainly brought back the motivation to keep working at it.


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[tgreese]

Woohoo!

TBI uses an idle air bypass to run the idle typically. There needs to be some kind of air control along with the throttle flap to control the idle at startup. Possible Holley implements this by holding the throttle flap open (Ford CFI is like that), but popular throttle bodies usually provide a separate passage (ie the GM Rochester TBs, the 4.0L HO TB, likely others). This separates the idle air from the TPS (throttle position sensor). Suggest you go through the Sniper instructions looking for such a thing; usually they are controlled by a stepper motor so that they open wider when starting (combined with mixture control).

Don't know about your transfer case question. The ball and/or pill could be an interlock to prevent low range in 2WD or full-time 4WD. Usual to allow low range in 4WD locked-up mode only. Too easy to damage the drive train in 2WD low or whatever.

[Anvil-3]

Turns out it was just the idle screw being all the way in, whoopsies.

brake booster doesnt seem to be doing much, ill have to dive into that along with getting power steering back online. A lap around the block also revealed some bad pinion(?) bearings on the front end.

[Theduke]

I've done similar to my 89 wagoneer. At this point nothing runs off vacuum and the only line is for the pcv valve and I used a fuel hose for it because vacuum lines always break or degrade on me. I recommend getting a hydroboost setup and getting rid of the vacuum break booster. I mainly did it because I was having lots of vacuum issues. I kept my NP229 and have it always in 4hi until I get a cable setup to switch the actuator. FYI, if you put in locking hubs on the front axle and forfet they're unlocked and put it in 4wd hi the car won't move. Sends all power to unlocked axle. I spent a week thinking I'd destroyed the t-case until I figured it out.

[Anvil-3]

Well, the usual delays, haven’t touched it in a couple months other than a noisy joyride around the block.

Planning to take care of the terrible exhaust manifold gaskets, and chasing down why my windows and locks don’t work… still need to finish patching up the floor and get the putting the interior back in.

Speedo doesn’t seem to work after hooking it back up. Previous owner bypassed the cruise control. Also having issues with the turn signals and lights, which is odd because there wasn’t anything wrong before. All lights work on hazard or brake etc, but blinkers don’t go and rear lights stay off until brake. Strange stuff to chase down.


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[Anvil-3]

Minor update, had taken it for a quick spin. Has a really loud metal ‘ping’ noise happen somewhere in the drivetrain then everything back to normal.. two occurrences now. Sounds like a bind then breaking free. Kinda scares the heck out of me.

I’ve torn down the front end and found the bad bearing. Putting back together this week, other than that all good up front. I’m hoping the previously referenced ball and detent in the T-case isn’t the issue…. That or a rogue needle bearing.


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[Anvil-3]

Boring update, new front carrier bearings installed today, felt very tight going in but hopefully reusing the same shims and brand (timken) bearings means it’s all Kosher. Oil tomorrow and redoing the exhaust manifold gaskets (again)

Boring updates but progress after months of sitting untouched.




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