wim's '84 blue hemi swap - now with sound!

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Since the broken and chipped pig nose grill is going, what alternative do you like best:

egg crate (Boobie)
13
37%
razor grille
22
63%
 
Total votes: 35


sierrablue
Posts: 931
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Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by sierrablue »

Cool!

OK I'll break the ice and post the 200th response here--any updates?

I suggest you don't go with the Holley lights--I'm sure they look good and function well, but there are so many stock-looking options now, that you can put a standard H4 bulb into, personally I'd get the Hella H4s and put LED H4 bulbs in it. Less than $100 (before tax and shipping) for the lenses, and then the LED H4s can be anywhere from $20 to $300. I would think it's cheaper to go that route, AND when the bulb burns out you're not out $400 (because the Holley lights are sealed beams). And if you REALLY need a bulb right that second, I would hope the parts stores would have one, it being a standard bulb. Way cheaper and easier to deal with than having to swap the entire lens and everything for a new sealed beam, that you're lucky if they have.
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

With great optimism comes great frustration from those who don't fabricate the bandwagon they jump on, as well as a responsibility to make sure the bandwagon is strong enough when others start jumping on it.
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dodgerammit
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Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by dodgerammit »

sierrablue wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:17 am AND when the bulb burns out you're not out $400 (because the Holley lights are sealed beams). And if you REALLY need a bulb right that second, I would hope the parts stores would have one, it being a standard bulb. Way cheaper and easier to deal with than having to swap the entire lens and everything for a new sealed beam, that you're lucky if they have.
Incorrect. Retrobrights use Morimoto LED bulbs. They can be swapped out and are available online. They aren't sealed beams. They look like them. You can dig up the LED headlight thread and find pics I took when I installed mine that clearly show this.

In fact, here is the bulb.
https://www.holley.com/products/exterio ... rts/LFRB20

Most H4 cheapie LED bulbs are sub par in light focus and output. You can actually find videos of testing done via Headlight Revolution's channel. You're gonna pay for quality in headlight bulbs. I see many bright bulbs in housings on the road that simply scatter the light and are only good at blinding oncoming drivers.

Given the quality of beam focus and pattern of the Retrobrights on my Jeep, if one bulb goes out, it's still twice as bright than both sealed beams on relays were. I could wait a couple of days for another bulb. You're gonna wait a couple of days for a cheapie LED too.

If a person is really concerned, a spare bulb in the glove box would put their mind to ease.
Having had this Jeep when AMC powered, one thing I learned was you can't count on parts stores having stuff in stock.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11897

sierrablue
Posts: 931
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:02 pm
Location: MN

Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by sierrablue »

Hm, interesting. I went to our local 4x4 shop (surprisingly underwhelming) and they told me the Retrobrights were a sealed beam still, and you had to replace the whole thing when they burned out.

I would still get the Hellas; they're German grade lights, so they have MUCH better focus and lighting than the stock-style lenses, yet look good. And I have a feeling that in the long run, the Holley bulbs are going to be hard to find. And Idk what the headlight laws are where you are, but the low beam has to be less than 3770 lumens in MN, technically, though the auto manufacturers don't seem to care about that.

The main reason I'm not looking at the H4s from Hella is that I want a clear lens, as it allows the most amount of light out of the lens; it relies on the reflector to change how the light leaves.

https://www.octanelighting.com/one-7-cr ... -bulb-1x-7

^Those are the ones I want, although technically they're a little too bright for MN state laws. We'll see how it goes. (anybody who's buying it themselves, don't buy it directly from them; they charge you twice as much as other places).
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

With great optimism comes great frustration from those who don't fabricate the bandwagon they jump on, as well as a responsibility to make sure the bandwagon is strong enough when others start jumping on it.
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dodgerammit
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Location: Middle TN

Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by dodgerammit »

sierrablue wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:49 am Hm, interesting. I went to our local 4x4 shop (surprisingly underwhelming) and they told me the Retrobrights were a sealed beam still, and you had to replace the whole thing when they burned out.
Not surprising. This is why I do my own work on dang near everything. Lots of "professional" shops that don't have a clue.
sierrablue wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:49 am And I have a feeling that in the long run, the Holley bulbs are going to be hard to find.
Again, they're Morimotos. Technically, holley just put their name on the system. Morimoto makes the bulb and designed the housing. Doubt they're going anywhere soon.
sierrablue wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:49 am And Idk what the headlight laws are where you are, but the low beam has to be less than 3770 lumens in MN, technically, though the auto manufacturers don't seem to care about that.
These are stamped on both the housing AND bulb with the ever-important DOT and SAE approvals, so completely legal.
sierrablue wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:49 am it relies on the reflector to change how the light leaves.
Every proper headlight housing uses the parabolic reflector for the same purpose ;) That is where the focus and pattern comes from. Cutoff designs can vary from LED placement within the reflector parabola to an actual cutoff shield inside the housing (the Hella projector housings on my T/A have the later style).
sierrablue wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:49 am https://www.octanelighting.com/one-7-cr ... -bulb-1x-7

^Those are the ones I want, although technically they're a little too bright for MN state laws. We'll see how it goes. (anybody who's buying it themselves, don't buy it directly from them; they charge you twice as much as other places).
Those state the important SAE/DOT stamping on the housing. The bulb is where I'm not sure.

It is important with LED bulbs that the diode is exactly where the corresponding filament of an incandescent bulb is located. Otherwise, the reflector parabola can't properly focus the light where it needs to be. IMO, this is why so many LED headlight swaps blind other drivers. The modder just slaps in whatever bulb without checking this, This results in the diode no longer in alignment where the reflector can properly direct the beam.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11897
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wimsurf
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Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by wimsurf »

not much updates worth pictures yet.

but I did verify mileage on the engine and transmission by reading the ecu details:
  • 19571 miles on engine
  • 16378 miles on transmission
transfer case has been rebuild so that is new.

working on finishing the underside plumbing properly.

doing:
  • making 6AN hardline fuel lines
  • making 8AN hardline transmission cooler lines
  • adding a mishimoto transmission cooler thermostat
  • put the dashboard back in for the 5th time to test fit the restomodair airco unit
  • try to route all the ducting and hosing so I can keep my glove box
done:
  • wired up the transmission
  • finished wiring all the windows and relays from Josh
  • finished wiring the doorlocks and relay
  • finished wiring the tailgate
  • adjusted the tailgate itself and the glass channels for about 5 hours until it shuts smoothly without slamming it... :banghead:
  • have all outside lighting working
  • added a 5$ switchback module to have daytime running lights that are also turn signals
hope to finish the doing list in 2 weeks so I can start fabbing up an exhaust!
1984 grand wagoneer
  • topaz gold | deep night blue,
  • AMC 360 v8 | 2019 5.7 hemi,
  • TF727 auto 3 speed | 8hp70 8 speed
  • nutmeg interior | sand or almond interior to be decided
it's a project now:
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewto ... 35#p197535
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dodgerammit
Posts: 1375
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:20 pm
Location: Middle TN

Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by dodgerammit »

wimsurf wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:31 am not much updates worth pictures yet.

but I did verify mileage on the engine and transmission by reading the ecu details:
  • 19571 miles on engine
  • 16378 miles on transmission
transfer case has been rebuild so that is new.

working on finishing the underside plumbing properly.

doing:
  • making 6AN hardline fuel lines
  • making 8AN hardline transmission cooler lines
  • adding a mishimoto transmission cooler thermostat
  • put the dashboard back in for the 5th time to test fit the restomodair airco unit
  • try to route all the ducting and hosing so I can keep my glove box
done:
  • wired up the transmission
  • finished wiring all the windows and relays from Josh
  • finished wiring the doorlocks and relay
  • finished wiring the tailgate
  • adjusted the tailgate itself and the glass channels for about 5 hours until it shuts smoothly without slamming it... :banghead:
  • have all outside lighting working
  • added a 5$ switchback module to have daytime running lights that are also turn signals
hope to finish the doing list in 2 weeks so I can start fabbing up an exhaust!
Can't wait to see this gorgeous machine on the road!
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11897

motoriderx7x
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:54 am

Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by motoriderx7x »

done:
wired up the transmission
finished wiring all the windows and relays from Josh
finished wiring the doorlocks and relay
finished wiring the tailgate
adjusted the tailgate itself and the glass channels for about 5 hours until it shuts smoothly without slamming it... :banghead:
have all outside lighting working
added a 5$ switchback module to have daytime running lights that are also turn signals
Since you did the drop out kit with ECM/TCM. How much of the trans and engine wiring had to be added or done versus plug and play? Or was the wiring you did just routing the existing harnesses/plugs?
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wimsurf
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Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by wimsurf »

motoriderx7x wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:04 pm
Since you did the drop out kit with ECM/TCM. How much of the trans and engine wiring had to be added or done versus plug and play? Or was the wiring you did just routing the existing harnesses/plugs?
jeep wiring was a mess when I got it, none of my windows doorlocks worked properly so I had to buy a new wiring kit and start from scratch.
I also exchanged my steering column for one without gear selection lever out of an 88 XJ, so that caused some wiring on the wipers and lights to be different.

Engine was wired and works, just needed ignition and starter wires to go to the right terminals on the switch. But ECM needs tuning (literally throws all the codes for missing components and body control module, causes it to run for 1 minute and then shut down, not a problem now, but need to delete those references) basically they only removed the SKIM module to prevent the security protocol from keeping the engine to start.

TCM is from sound German automotive and came with it in a box. fairly easy to install and Russel, the owner of sound German is amazing in support.

Most challenging thing is the proper routing of wires and figuring out that the jeeps have an ignition switch with 2 seperate power circuits, and when moving from start to on, you lose power momentarily which sometimes causes the fuel relay to shut down.. added a delay relay, set it to 30 seconds, and it now is solved.
1984 grand wagoneer
  • topaz gold | deep night blue,
  • AMC 360 v8 | 2019 5.7 hemi,
  • TF727 auto 3 speed | 8hp70 8 speed
  • nutmeg interior | sand or almond interior to be decided
it's a project now:
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewto ... 35#p197535

motoriderx7x
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:54 am

Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by motoriderx7x »

wimsurf wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:18 am
motoriderx7x wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:04 pm
Since you did the drop out kit with ECM/TCM. How much of the trans and engine wiring had to be added or done versus plug and play? Or was the wiring you did just routing the existing harnesses/plugs?
jeep wiring was a mess when I got it, none of my windows doorlocks worked properly so I had to buy a new wiring kit and start from scratch.
I also exchanged my steering column for one without gear selection lever out of an 88 XJ, so that caused some wiring on the wipers and lights to be different.

Engine was wired and works, just needed ignition and starter wires to go to the right terminals on the switch. But ECM needs tuning (literally throws all the codes for missing components and body control module, causes it to run for 1 minute and then shut down, not a problem now, but need to delete those references) basically they only removed the SKIM module to prevent the security protocol from keeping the engine to start.

TCM is from sound German automotive and came with it in a box. fairly easy to install and Russel, the owner of sound German is amazing in support.

Most challenging thing is the proper routing of wires and figuring out that the jeeps have an ignition switch with 2 seperate power circuits, and when moving from start to on, you lose power momentarily which sometimes causes the fuel relay to shut down.. added a delay relay, set it to 30 seconds, and it now is solved.
What did you use to tune the ECM? I have an entire 6.4L hemi donor vehicle to include ignition system I was hoping to be able to use as much of it as possible with out having to go with a ton of aftermarket computers/controllers. Do you think you needed the aftermarket TCM was necessary because the drivetrain and wiring was consolidated to function out of the crate?
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wimsurf
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Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by wimsurf »

motoriderx7x wrote:
wimsurf wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:18 am
motoriderx7x wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:04 pm
Since you did the drop out kit with ECM/TCM. How much of the trans and engine wiring had to be added or done versus plug and play? Or was the wiring you did just routing the existing harnesses/plugs?
jeep wiring was a mess when I got it, none of my windows doorlocks worked properly so I had to buy a new wiring kit and start from scratch.
I also exchanged my steering column for one without gear selection lever out of an 88 XJ, so that caused some wiring on the wipers and lights to be different.

Engine was wired and works, just needed ignition and starter wires to go to the right terminals on the switch. But ECM needs tuning (literally throws all the codes for missing components and body control module, causes it to run for 1 minute and then shut down, not a problem now, but need to delete those references) basically they only removed the SKIM module to prevent the security protocol from keeping the engine to start.

TCM is from sound German automotive and came with it in a box. fairly easy to install and Russel, the owner of sound German is amazing in support.

Most challenging thing is the proper routing of wires and figuring out that the jeeps have an ignition switch with 2 seperate power circuits, and when moving from start to on, you lose power momentarily which sometimes causes the fuel relay to shut down.. added a delay relay, set it to 30 seconds, and it now is solved.
What did you use to tune the ECM? I have an entire 6.4L hemi donor vehicle to include ignition system I was hoping to be able to use as much of it as possible with out having to go with a ton of aftermarket computers/controllers. Do you think you needed the aftermarket TCM was necessary because the drivetrain and wiring was consolidated to function out of the crate?
As far as I know the 8hp always need a tcm to be controlled unless you find a way to merge all the wiring and computers from the donor vehicle.

I believe Cleveland performance does take outs this way: engine, transmission, all the wiring, dashboard steering column, tank and pump.

The tcm is from sound German automotive, I believe the full kit is 1200 for the trans.


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1984 grand wagoneer
  • topaz gold | deep night blue,
  • AMC 360 v8 | 2019 5.7 hemi,
  • TF727 auto 3 speed | 8hp70 8 speed
  • nutmeg interior | sand or almond interior to be decided
it's a project now:
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewto ... 35#p197535
User avatar

Topic author
wimsurf
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:22 pm
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Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by wimsurf »

Exhaust time! Image
Image
Did the passenger side today.
Manifolds, straight to the magnaflow muffler, axle bend over the rear axle.

A double 3” is a bit of a challenge to route, but I can make it fit.
Tomorrow on to the driver side!


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1984 grand wagoneer
  • topaz gold | deep night blue,
  • AMC 360 v8 | 2019 5.7 hemi,
  • TF727 auto 3 speed | 8hp70 8 speed
  • nutmeg interior | sand or almond interior to be decided
it's a project now:
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewto ... 35#p197535

Mopar_guy
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:13 am

Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by Mopar_guy »

3" on a 5.7? That's big. 2.5" is plenty big. I have 2.5" on my 5.7 in my Javelin and I had a lot of problems with drone. These engines are well known for it and straight thru mufflers make it even louder, so my suggestion is not to weld those mufflers in place, just clamp them. I used Gibson chambered mufflers and it still was pretty bad. I ended up adding a set of drone tubes to get rid of it. When I do the build on my Cherokee this year, with a 6.4, I'm planning on having them installed the original build so I don't have the go thru the same thing again.

Nice job on this build!
83 Cherokee Laredo
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Yeller
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Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by Yeller »

3” is a fun challenge, especially when you’re told it won’t fit. did one a few years ago that a 4o” straight section had 16 pieces in it. Lol.

Was in this car with an LS 6.

Loving the build, excited to see it getting closer ti being on the road.
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The bus I ride is so short it is a yellow Smart Car full of squirrels, monkeys and clowns.

1970 J2500 Resto Mod
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewt ... 12&t=21395

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wimsurf
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wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by wimsurf »

Well, it fits :)

There is always room for a drone pipe, or an additional small muffler.
I installed a magnaflow to avoid drone. I don’t like the sound of flowmasters.

Sounds great!

https://youtube.com/shorts/6H4rEFTch_I?feature=share

We will see when I’ll start driving.
I took 3” because we had a lot of 3” pipe laying around.
Image
Image
Image
Image


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1984 grand wagoneer
  • topaz gold | deep night blue,
  • AMC 360 v8 | 2019 5.7 hemi,
  • TF727 auto 3 speed | 8hp70 8 speed
  • nutmeg interior | sand or almond interior to be decided
it's a project now:
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewto ... 35#p197535
User avatar

Yeller
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:54 am
Location: Rogers County Oklahoma

Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by Yeller »

used that same muffler in 2-1/2" in a previous build, always thought it was just right.

Man that's some smooth, shiny paint and it sounds good too
The bus I ride is so short it is a yellow Smart Car full of squirrels, monkeys and clowns.

1970 J2500 Resto Mod
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewt ... 12&t=21395

1974 Bronco “Broncno”
https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threa ... st-3411909

sierrablue
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Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by sierrablue »

wimsurf wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 9:51 am Well, it fits :)

There is always room for a drone pipe, or an additional small muffler.
I installed a magnaflow to avoid drone. I don’t like the sound of flowmasters.

Sounds great!

https://youtube.com/shorts/6H4rEFTch_I?feature=share

We will see when I’ll start driving.
I took 3” because we had a lot of 3” pipe laying around.
Image
Image
Image
Image


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Yeah I've heard (literally) that Flowmaster 50s are super loud and irritating to listen to. Mine has a Flowmaster 70 (I think), and it's not super loud. I love the growl it makes--it's there but not too loud. Factory 2" t-pipe (I'd call it a Y-pipe but I just can't because of the way it's designed), into a short section of 2.25", into a 2.5" muffler, back into 2.25" for about 8" (I'd have gotten rid of that if I'd been thinking when I did the tailpipe), back to 2.5", and then the section I put in, which is 3". At least it shouldn't have any back pressure? :lol:

Looks and sounds good! Keep up the good work!
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

With great optimism comes great frustration from those who don't fabricate the bandwagon they jump on, as well as a responsibility to make sure the bandwagon is strong enough when others start jumping on it.

Laredo Matt
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Location: Washington

Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by Laredo Matt »

Wim,

love seeing the progress, getting close!

I haven't been on much in the past two months, crazy busy with job but chugging ahead.

took the jeep out for new rear axles, drive shafts and to get the hyrdroboost lines made.

plan to jump on wiring when it's back. still a good month plus behind you but your updates keep me motivated...plus the amount of dead money that is sitting there until I get have the jeep driving :)

wimsurf wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 9:51 am Well, it fits :)

There is always room for a drone pipe, or an additional small muffler.
I installed a magnaflow to avoid drone. I don’t like the sound of flowmasters.

Sounds great!

<video snip>

We will see when I’ll start driving.
I took 3” because we had a lot of 3” pipe laying around.

<images snip>

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Matt
83 Cherokee Laredo
GEN III LS Swap (LM7 block)
4L60E

Laredo Matt
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Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by Laredo Matt »

exhaust note sounds great too !
Matt
83 Cherokee Laredo
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Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by wimsurf »

edit, removed double post
Last edited by wimsurf on Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
1984 grand wagoneer
  • topaz gold | deep night blue,
  • AMC 360 v8 | 2019 5.7 hemi,
  • TF727 auto 3 speed | 8hp70 8 speed
  • nutmeg interior | sand or almond interior to be decided
it's a project now:
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewto ... 35#p197535
User avatar

Topic author
wimsurf
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:22 pm
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Re: wim's '84 blue hemi swap

Post by wimsurf »

After having it idle for a longer time, and running it through the gears on jack stands to start warming up the transmission (it has to be warm to fill it to the desired oil level) I decided to add Catalytic converters.

I want to be able to drive it with the surfboards in and the rear window open now and then so don't want to suffocate :)

I built some better downpipes with Magnaflow high-flow cats in them.
Image

really love the sound right now, nice rumble when it idles, sounds like it has potential when slowly revving and roars when stepping on it.

sounds great!
next up is transmission cooler lines, some properly lined fuel lines, and a powersteering cooler. then on to the next chapter I know nothing about: the airconditioning unit.
Last edited by wimsurf on Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1984 grand wagoneer
  • topaz gold | deep night blue,
  • AMC 360 v8 | 2019 5.7 hemi,
  • TF727 auto 3 speed | 8hp70 8 speed
  • nutmeg interior | sand or almond interior to be decided
it's a project now:
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewto ... 35#p197535
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