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Alternator - What am I Missing?

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:27 pm
by 69 Gladiator
Hi Everyone,
First post here. 69 J-2500, Buick 350. We changed the alternator and now the battery will not charge. We've gotten yet another alternator, no help, new voltage regulator, no help, quadruple checked connections & inspected all the fuses we could find, no help. Changed both battery cables, no help. We changed bulbs is the dash, AMP light still works, but no help. Today we changed the ignition switch, you guessed it, no help.
We are missing something, probably obvious and embarrassing, but we have been over and over that wiring diagram until we can't see straight.
Any thoughts? any help?
Thanks

Re: Alternator - What am I Missing?

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:38 pm
by Stuka
Welcome to the forum.

First off, do you have a multimeter? Just replacing every part under the hood is kind of a brute force way of going about things. A basic multimeter that can measure voltage will save a lot of work.

If you do, start by measuring voltage coming out of the alternator, and out of the voltage regulator. And then just work down the line.

One thing I HIGHLY suggest you do, it bypass that ammeter in the dash. In your year I believe its just a dummy light, but I think all of the vehicles current is still routed through it. And is the number one cause of dash fires.

Re: Alternator - What am I Missing?

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:41 pm
by 69 Gladiator
Stuka wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:38 pm Welcome to the forum.

First off, do you have a multimeter? Just replacing every part under the hood is kind of a brute force way of going about things. A basic multimeter that can measure voltage will save a lot of work.

If you do, start by measuring voltage coming out of the alternator, and out of the voltage regulator. And then just work down the line.

One thing I HIGHLY suggest you do, it bypass that ammeter in the dash. In your year I believe its just a dummy light, but I think all of the vehicles current is still routed through it. And is the number one cause of dash fires.
Thanks. The AMP light is a dummy light. You're right about being more methodical.

Re: Alternator - What am I Missing?

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:10 am
by itselliott
I haven't done this in a LOOONG time...that said, there is something about the alternator needing to receive "exciter" voltage in order to turn it"on".
Perhaps doing a Google Search on that topic would help you out. Possible also, is that you need a diode in the excite wire.
Here is some good info.
https://oljeep.com/gw/alt/edge_Alternator_Theory.html

Re: Alternator - What am I Missing?

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:38 am
by Stuka
itselliott wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:10 am I haven't done this in a LOOONG time...that said, there is something about the alternator needing to receive "exciter" voltage in order to turn it"on".
Perhaps doing a Google Search on that topic would help you out. Possible also, is that you need a diode in the excite wire.
Here is some good info.
https://oljeep.com/gw/alt/edge_Alternator_Theory.html
Yup, I should have put this in my first post. But figured I would start with getting a multimeter first. Hopefully the link there can help him out.

Re: Alternator - What am I Missing?

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:49 pm
by 69 Gladiator
Thanks guys.

Re: Alternator - What am I Missing?

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:38 am
by tgreese
If the original alternator did not have a diode, the AMP light serves that purpose. An incandescent bulb has enough resistance to prevent backfeed to the ignition switch. Also, generally a missing exciter current won't prevent the alternator from self-generating; instead, the residual magnetism in the rotor iron will be enough to start if you spin the rotor fast enough. The exciter wire will start self-generation even at idle.

Do you have a FSM that covers this year? BJ's has them https://www.bjsoffroad.com/1965-1971-Je ... _1055.html and other places should too. If you can find any Jeep FSM that covers this year, it will have the diagnostic flow chart or description for the Motorola alternator and regulator that Jeep used. As I recall, the wiring is simple - the alternator has three connections: ground, field, regulator and battery. The field wire goes back to the regulator and goes up and down in response to the battery voltage (which changes with the current required by the load). There should be the field connection and ignition (ALT light) connection to the regulator, as well as battery voltage (regulator sense wire) and ground.

You really need the FSM if you are going to do your own work on your Jeep.

Look here - https://oljeep.com/edge_74_tsm.html - Jeep was still using the (not so great) Motorola alternator and regulator in 1974, and the description and diagnostics (for the charging system only) should be the same.

Another possibility is to convert to the later Delco systems integrated alternator (10SI plus later variants) that consolidate the regulator and alternator in the same unit. http://madelectrical.com/electricaltech/delcoremy.shtml Jeep went to the modern and reliable 10SI for the sixes in 1975, and for the V8s in 1978.

Re: Alternator - What am I Missing?

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:47 pm
by 69 Gladiator
Have the service manual. The links provided have been helpful, thanks again. Now, all I need is time; the damn job is getting in the way of the Jeep project. Again.

Re: Alternator - What am I Missing?

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:54 pm
by candymancan
Id just cut and disconnect the amp meter, and get yourself a digital volt meter and screw it in somewhere, and upgrade to an alternator tgreese is talking about with an internal regulator

Re: Alternator - What am I Missing?

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:41 pm
by Stuka
69 Gladiator wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:47 pm Have the service manual. The links provided have been helpful, thanks again. Now, all I need is time; the damn job is getting in the way of the Jeep project. Again.
They always do. But, without them we can't fund the projects. Its a vicious circle.

Re: Alternator - What am I Missing?

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:06 pm
by 69 Gladiator
tgreese wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:38 am If the original alternator did not have a diode, the AMP light serves that purpose. An incandescent bulb has enough resistance to prevent backfeed to the ignition switch. Also, generally a missing exciter current won't prevent the alternator from self-generating; instead, the residual magnetism in the rotor iron will be enough to start if you spin the rotor fast enough. The exciter wire will start self-generation even at idle.

Do you have a FSM that covers this year? BJ's has them https://www.bjsoffroad.com/1965-1971-Je ... _1055.html and other places should too. If you can find any Jeep FSM that covers this year, it will have the diagnostic flow chart or description for the Motorola alternator and regulator that Jeep used. As I recall, the wiring is simple - the alternator has three connections: ground, field, regulator and battery. The field wire goes back to the regulator and goes up and down in response to the battery voltage (which changes with the current required by the load). There should be the field connection and ignition (ALT light) connection to the regulator, as well as battery voltage (regulator sense wire) and ground.

You really need the FSM if you are going to do your own work on your Jeep.

Look here - https://oljeep.com/edge_74_tsm.html - Jeep was still using the (not so great) Motorola alternator and regulator in 1974, and the description and diagnostics (for the charging system only) should be the same.

Another possibility is to convert to the later Delco systems integrated alternator (10SI plus later variants) that consolidate the regulator and alternator in the same unit. http://madelectrical.com/electricaltech/delcoremy.shtml Jeep went to the modern and reliable 10SI for the sixes in 1975, and for the V8s in 1978.
Thanks Tim,
The wiring would then obviously change to something simpler?

Re: Alternator - What am I Missing?

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:35 am
by tgreese
This has been covered over and over on the internet. Yes, you eliminate the external regulator and connect the new alternator.