84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

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sierrablue
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by sierrablue »

Lol

They all go that way, as I'm finding too.
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.
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devildog80
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Location: Apache Junction AZ

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Yep, but something to be said of the satisfaction we get, from getting these old dogs running and on the road again :)
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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Pablo
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Location: Arizona

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by Pablo »

devildog80 wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 1:01 pm Mongo228 and I thinking of somehow making a new base behind the face of the oem cluster, to get something working that will hold together & last.

He has some sheet steel, and also thinking wood?

Then perhaps salvage the actual front to glue on so it looks oem?

Anyone ever McGyver a cluster together like what we are thinking?
I used fiberglass on an XJ dash/cluster that sat in AZ sun too long and cracked and broke. It worked. It was much stronger than previous experiments with epoxy, but lots and lots of sanding and wearing a respirator. Not very expensive to do though, just time consuming. If you don't have the front of anything exposed or cover it with the cluster, then you probably won't need to sand so much.
  • 64 FSJ Wagoneer, under the knife
  • 67 FSJ Wagoneer, peacefully taking a break
  • 94 XJ, long-armed on 33's. Bolt on ghetto fab fantastic
  • 16 BU, wife's snow commuter
Formerly: 06 KJ CRD (Constantly Repair Diesel)
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Fiberglass might be the ultimate ticket to fix these.

Thanks for the input :)
Pablo wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:16 pm
devildog80 wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 1:01 pm Mongo228 and I thinking of somehow making a new base behind the face of the oem cluster, to get something working that will hold together & last.

He has some sheet steel, and also thinking wood?

Then perhaps salvage the actual front to glue on so it looks oem?

Anyone ever McGyver a cluster together like what we are thinking?
I used fiberglass on an XJ dash/cluster that sat in AZ sun too long and cracked and broke. It worked. It was much stronger than previous experiments with epoxy, but lots and lots of sanding and wearing a respirator. Not very expensive to do though, just time consuming. If you don't have the front of anything exposed or cover it with the cluster, then you probably won't need to sand so much.
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

​Update

Seems the new set of plug wires did the trick.

Truck starts every time, and first time now, so finally can get to looking at finer details under the hood.

Need to figure out the high idle solenoid, to see why it will not come off, after truck is up to temp.

Suspect that switch is bad, so needs opened up and cleaned, or replaced.

Also time to start getting wiring cleaned up and re-loomed, now that engine is running.

Brakes - reservoirs - rear (front brakes) empty and front (rear brakes) low, so filled up master to see if there are any immediate leaks anywhere. No leaks!

All lines need flushed - each wheel function needs checked - frame to wheel lines need replaced - pads & shoes need checked/replaced.

Initial function - booster works, all wheels come up even on pedal pressure, but there is air in the front lines as bubbles are found in master when pumping the pedal.

Radiator hoses and belts all here now, so can replace and get those out of the way.

Just a bit of hard start when at operating temp. "Timing by ear" was off by just 2*, so Mongo228 brought his timing light over and we set it right.

Ripped out old OEM headliner, and found the cargo light & switch works. Old was so dry it mostly fell apart just trying to handle it to the trash can.

Want to replace full headliner & cargo area with T&G pine. Shag carpet will be replaced in passenger floor area. Some time before getting to those details.

Gauge cluster still on the bench, pending salvage operation to save it.

So in a nutshell making progress, and encouraged to keep moving forward ​
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

sierrablue
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by sierrablue »

That's awesome!

You going to go with braided stainless hoses? Should be able to make them rock hard and never have to replace them...

When I did the brakes on mine, I noticed that my master cylinder is plumbed backwards 😂 The front is the front and the rear is the rear right now, and the rear has two drain holes in the bottom of it, so it SHOULD be the front one. Since the brakes aren't 100% bled and I'm going to install a pedal-activated switch instead of the pressure-activated one, and the brakes aren't bled as much as I'd like, I'll probably fix that sometime soon...
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.
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devildog80
Posts: 1070
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:41 pm
Location: Apache Junction AZ

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

There was a set of braided steel lines in a box of parts in the back of the truck when I got it, so yes, they will go on the front.

Need to get another set for the rear.
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

sierrablue
Posts: 1208
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:02 pm
Location: MN/CO

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by sierrablue »

Set??? You got disc brakes back there? Pretty sure it's just one hose if not...
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.

dyermullet
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:54 pm
Location: Texas

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by dyermullet »

I don't believe it is a high idle solenoid, it is an anti diesel in solenoid. Idle speed was set using the solenoid adjustment not the carb adjustment. When ignition turned off, solenoid de-energized causing throttle to close further and choke the engine.

My solenoid was too weak to consistently hold the throttle open. When i was still using the two barrel I just adjusted it to where it no longer worked and set the idle with the carb screw. Never had any dieseling, but also had to fine tuned to where it ran the best not to the emissions tune.

I would just remove it and not look back.
83 J10
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tgreese
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by tgreese »

These solenoids can be used for both purposes: high idle or anti-diesel. I'd suggest you look in the TSM to find what its purpose is. Or, you could look at the signal that is sent to the device. If it's anti-diesel, it will be on always when the ignition is on. If high idle, it will be on when the AC is on, for example. Quite sure it's not a part of the cold-start fast idle system; that's controlled by the fast idle cam on the choke side of the carburetor. Nearly all of these cold-start systems on our Jeeps are thermoelectric and need both electricity and hot air from the manifold to function properly.

Just me - carbureted engines got more and more Rube Goldberg devices through the 80s, and most manufacturers were adopting EFI of some sort. Carbureotrs have always been fiddly and fractious, and are often the focus of needed maintenance on old cars. If you want your Jeep to be driveable and reliable and don't care about originality and/or emissions compliance, junking all the tacked-on devices and the original carb for EFI seems the way to go.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Right now is on all the time, and sets about 1200 rpm.

Only a single nut to hold it on the bracket, so would need to bend the bracket for adjustment.

Yes the cold idle does set up from the mechanical steps on choke side of carb, but will check TSM and see if it is wired in correctly.

PO had some interesting wiring we had to plow through, and find where it all went.
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Set / single line......wasn't thinking.....4 wheels.....2 lines.....DOH!

Rear drums....yes :)
sierrablue wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:07 pm Set??? You got disc brakes back there? Pretty sure it's just one hose if not...
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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tgreese
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by tgreese »

devildog80 wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:20 am Right now is on all the time, and sets about 1200 rpm.

Only a single nut to hold it on the bracket, so would need to bend the bracket for adjustment.

Yes the cold idle does set up from the mechanical steps on choke side of carb, but will check TSM and see if it is wired in correctly.

PO had some interesting wiring we had to plow through, and find where it all went.
IIRC the bracket should be threaded, and the single nut is a lock nut. If you can't idle down with it there, I'd suggest removing it and setting the curb idle with the curb idle stop screw on the driver's side. Maybe put it back later, maybe not.

The electric connection for the choke is also on while the engine is running. Some of these Jeeps have an oil pressure switch that will not heat the choke element until the engine actually runs (ie 'key on' will not unwind the choke). This electricity supplements the hot air that comes into the choke cover from the manifold. Combined heating from electricity and hot air unwinds the bimetal choke spring and moves the choke plate. Position of the choke plate initially controls which step on the fast idle cam for the fast idle screw.

Note the choke connection is well-known as a source of burnt wires under the hood, since it's not fused from the factory. Discussed in older posts if you search.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

sierrablue
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by sierrablue »

devildog80 wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:22 am Set / single line......wasn't thinking.....4 wheels.....2 lines.....DOH!

Rear drums....yes :)
sierrablue wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:07 pm Set??? You got disc brakes back there? Pretty sure it's just one hose if not...
Lol just checking ;)
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.
User avatar

Topic author
devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

That is what I thought it should be too, but the bracket has no thread base for the solenoid....or is stripped, and the solenoid just flops around in the bracket unless the nut is tightened up.

Yes it is wired in with the electric choke circuit, so will unplug it for now as the idle screw is good to set for now on new carb.

Looked through the TSM and found very little that even showed the idle solenoid, let alone how it should work.

Thought maybe it functioned like the electric choke, with heating element in it, but choke works correctly and idle solenoid stays the same.

One of those details I will not lose sleep over, but figure it out later.
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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tgreese
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Location: Medford MA USA

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by tgreese »

The connection is shown on the SSI diagram for '82-83. Says "carburetor solenoid as required." It will be on when the SSI is on.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

I have an '84, and it is there, but should it disengage after a time?

Or is this to set curb idle?

I have read where this was also connected through the AC unit, on some years/model vehicles, and will kick on to bump RPM's with AC running.

Its not a big deal really, as I have a new MC2100 on the truck in place of OEM MC2150 w/alt comp, and the solenoid I will implement at a later date, when I make sure the bracket etc is good to work like it should.

Going to leave it on, and unplug for now.

Thanks for the assist tgreese :)
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Update

Along with the weather being cool here, those who lived here for awhile 40* above zero is cool, and my hands kinda lock up when cold.

Covid came to visit again, #3, so had me at idle for a few weeks! Still some after effects, but can work through those.

Lots rattling in my brain, but took some time off the rig to let life do her thing, and itching to get back to it.

Will be putzing a bit this weekend in the garage/driveway, and wake up the brain again to get back at the fixin tasks, so not to push ideal weather work into the 1008 days coming soon here.

Then bare metal gets so hot, you need gloves to keep from getting burned.

Just checking in, and nice to see progress where others are getting tasks done :)
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

sierrablue
Posts: 1208
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:02 pm
Location: MN/CO

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by sierrablue »

Sorry to hear you caught another round of the Rona. Doesn't sound like any fun. I was just thinking about asking if you had any updates.
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.
User avatar

Topic author
devildog80
Posts: 1070
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:41 pm
Location: Apache Junction AZ

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Here is one update

With long lasting Jeep parts budget issues, mostly from job that was fizzeling out for too long before better finally came about late last year, my Jeep boss agreed to let me buy one new tire each payday.

So in 2 months will have that accomplished to have new rubber under the rig....all the way around, and I can live in peace at home :)

Aside from that, have a major parasitic draw somewhere that needs addressed first, when I get back to it.
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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