84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

[devildog80]

And did not know this. Found it on another site so will be looking to find these, and open them up to see what things look like behind each one.

Make sure you remove the drain plugs on each side of the lower engine block when you do the coolant flush. IIRC, the plug is 1/4 pipe thread and needs a 9/16 socket or wrench to turn it out.

So if I drain the system again, to access the block drain plugs, will pull the radiator and see if I can do a reverse flush on it. Might push some chunks out, or not, but worth a try and costs me nothing. Perhaps do an internal acid soak on it and see if any improvement.....but ultimately taking it to a repair shop that can do it right is the best option.

1695496860669 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr
1695496399547 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

[90wagmi]

Are you sure that you got all of the air out of the cooling system? After draining/refilling mine it got air locked. The engine temp rose rapidly on my 360 AMC until I could burp all of the air out of the system. Once doing that the engine temps stabilized to where they should be.

The original thermostat that I replaced had a bypass hole drilled in it to prevent this (or so I read on other forum posts). The use of a bypass hole on these Jeeps was debatable and I did not put one in my new thermostat.

Do you have an exhaust leak into the cooling system? A long time ago I had an old K-car with this issue where exhaust gases would air lock the cooling system. My cheap fix on that car was to drill a bypass hole into the thermostat which allowed the exhaust gases to escape past the thermostat.

As for the engine block drain plugs there should be two and both of mine wouldn’t budge. The coolant I was removing wasn’t that bad so I just let it go.

[devildog80]

I put a high volume thermostat in it, but no place to drill a bypass hole, though I have done that on most every vehicle I have owned since 1975. I thought about the air in the system too, and will double check that when new radiator goes in, if there is a problem. I have some good off road places really close I can get the nose up and burp the engine, and will get there as soon as I can get it cool enough to get there.
Thanks

Update

Pulled old radiator out this morning, and back flushed into a tub. What came out was a lot of fines, that looked like the residual of stop leak. Have a pic -
20230924_122905 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

So......as much as I am resisting buying an aluminum radiator......I really want to be driving my truck, so......Amazon has an aluminum radiator for $186, so getting it ordered. When $$'s get better, then will get my original brass one rebuilt, then keep the aluminum one for spare

Is what it is I guess.....but really want to be driving it.

[devildog80]

She has been through the ringer, and deserves a rebuild......someday!
20230924_120753 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

[tgreese]

Word of warning - make sure that you can return that radiator through Amazon (easy returns) if you buy one. The first replacement aluminum radiator I bought for my J20 did not fit and I had to return it. Shipping was on me, and a radiator is not cheap for an individual to ship.

The second one I bought was an aluminum and plastic type from a recognized brand, like Spectra IIRC. Fit perfectly and runs cool.

[devildog80]

This is the one I purchased, and did not see another that matched my truck, so hoping it is the right one. Coming from Cooling Racing Parts.

ZAP Performance 3-Row Full Aluminum Radiator Compatible with 1972 73 74 75 76 77 78 79-1988 JEEP CHEROKEE/WAGONEER/ J10 J20 J-Series 5.9 V8

[devildog80]

Update
New radiator arrived, and installed it today. My gosh that old one is heavy!!!
Before install, pulled heater hose off and hooked up to garden hose, to flush the block. Used a tub and no residuals came through, but did recover more antifreeze I needed, so that was good.
Tried initial install, but bottom of radiator bracket needed drilled, to match mounting on radiator support. Last hole was too high, so bottom hole circled are my new ones to fit the truck.
Installed and filled with water only to check for leaks, then took for a test drive about 15 mile trip, and temp gauge stayed right around the 180* of the thermostat. Outside temps high 90's with half test drive going with a brisk tail wind, then brisk head wind on the way back. Headwind cooled temp down about width of needle, so looks like the fix here was the combo of new thermostat, water pump, and radiator. Runs nice and cool finally.
Let it cool, drained, then refilled with antifreeze.
Now I can get some miles on it, to work out more bugs

20230930_084203 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr
20230930_121029 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr
20230930_124710 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr
20230930_124723 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr
20230930_124751 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

Idle temp warmed up in driveway
20230930_130616 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

Midway turn around temp with just water
20230930_131649 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

[devildog80]

Also reset my distributor vac position, as test drive with radiator engine was pinging a bit on hard acceleration, and I could not drop my timing back enough without getting into the power steering belt.
I looked at this last year, but seemed it would not work as PS pump was too close. Maybe new belts or something cleared a little more room as it worked today.
Simple procedure - Set a marker on any part of the cap or plug wires, keeping everything in place just like you run it, then make a second reference point just like the first on the next plug wire. Now loosen the distributor and turn the whole distributor until you line up on the second mark, just one plug away from the first. At this point you will pull your #1 wire off the cap, and move it back to where it was before you turned the distributor.
So to clarify my process, I made my reference point, loosened the distributor and turned it one plug wire counter clockwise, which moved my vac advance down towards the power steering pump. I then took my #1 wire (the actual one going to plug #1) and moved it clockwise to the hole that is now where my #1 used to be. I continued moving one wire at a time clockwise until I was back at my #1.
Can be confusing, but remember, you DO NOT remove the cap, you DO NOT remove the distributor!
All you are doing is turning the distributor by one plug wire distance, then resetting your wires back to the original position they would have been at, when looking down at the cap from above.

Starting position of my vac advance. See how it is under the power steering belt?
20230924_120607 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

End position of vac advance after turning one plug wire counter clockwise.
See I marked a #1 with black marker on the cap? The original position of my #1 was the next one to the right, which has the #1 formed on the cap.
20230930_141025 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

[devildog80]

Finally graduated to hooking up the camper. Checked light connections from truck, found a brake wire on trailer damaged from a blow out some years ago when my dad was still running the country with it (it is still his camper), so need to address that. Pulled camper around to driveway to do some work on it, and Wagoneer does not even feel like its back there, compared to my '07 Dakota. Actual camping trip will take a bit longer, but now with cooling issue resolved, at least I can move onto other issues.

Measured length of both Wagoneer and Dakota with camper attached. Dakota comes in at 34 ft long, Waggy comes in at 30 ft long, so shorter rig but so much more truck to pull it with. And tare weight of the camper is right around 1500#, so makes sense the Wagoneer would not even flinch, and we do not usually add more than 2-400 lbs of gear, which is mostly added in the truck.

20231004_110753 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20231004_110917 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

[will e]

Looking good! Let me know when you want to do an easy shake out run on the trail!

[devildog80]

Will be in touch as it is getting really close needing to get that done, to make sure 4x4 works and truck is up to the task for added duties in the near future.
Wife still wants paint to look better before presenting it to her family as our new tow rig, but I keep trying to convince her that keeps someone else from wanting it more than we do.......she is not convinced.....yet! But I still need to get carpet & more interior work done too, so there is that.

[Theodore]

And did not know this. Found it on another site so will be looking to find these, and open them up to see what things look like behind each one.

Make sure you remove the drain plugs on each side of the lower engine block when you do the coolant flush. IIRC, the plug is 1/4 pipe thread and needs a 9/16 socket or wrench to turn it out.

So if I drain the system again, to access the block drain plugs, will pull the radiator and see if I can do a reverse flush on it. Might push some chunks out, or not, but worth a try and costs me nothing. Perhaps do an internal acid soak on it and see if any improvement.....but ultimately taking it to a repair shop that can do it right is the best option.

1695496860669 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr
1695496399547 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

Thanks for posting this, devildog80; am looking at doing a coolant flush in a couple weeks when I pull the intake to fix the gasket leak; had seen a mention of pulling the black drain, but never knew where it was. Saw a post from srdayflyer that mentioned flushing with evaporust thermocure, and showed mason jars of liquid at each stage; think I’m going to try it & post what i see.

[devildog80]

Yep, it is good to know what is coming out of the block & radiator, so residuals do not push into new fluid/parts and continue to cause problems.
I used a 5 gl tub, so any solids would fall to the bottom, then was able to inspect what I found. When I connected the garden hose to the heater hose on the intake, I was able to capture a lot more antifreeze out of the lower hose and did not need to pull the thermostat, which I strained back into my empty jugs, then flushed until everything ran clean. Lucky and did not have anything show up in the block to worry about, as seemed it all captured in the old radiator......which weighed about 50 lbs when I pulled it.

[devildog80]

Went to RV parts house today, to get some window seal tape, and found they have a '76 CJ5 sitting in the back that they did a full body off refurbish, replacement steel body, 304 refreshed twice/3 spd factory, and just not driving it. They said anything fair they would sell it as it just sits there, and should be in pretty good shape, with no cancer on body or frame. Local RV parts/repair shop out here in Apache Junction AZ, for anyone interested with money and time to maybe flip it?

[devildog80]

So....chasing valve ping on the 401.

Not much change with timing variance up or down, and all I have so far to reference is specs for a 360. Looking for more info on the 401 tuning, maybe on International Harvester for farm trucks or somewhere like that, and maybe it's as simple to use a higher octane fuel grade.

Tasks at hand right now-

Size of jets - Is it getting enough fuel, as MC2150 I am using came off a 258 and not resized......yet. Will check the MC2150 that came on the truck to see what it has.

Heat of plugs- running stock OEM plugs and thinking to up the heat range a little?

HEI- thinking to go back to HEI as that is what was on it when it came to me. ECM has it running really nice at easy driving, but need to look at towing demands now.

Emission controls on engine- will power improve if I remove emission equipment like air injection to exhaust?

Any/all input needed to turn the corner from "It runs good" to "I can pull that anywhere"
Thanks

[Yeller]

Looks good with the trailer hooked up

[devildog80]

Thanks.....just need to get the paint looking pretty, before my wife agrees to be seen out in public riding in it :/

[devildog80]

I did change the jets out, and the existing ones out of the Chinese knock off MC2150 did not have a size stamped anywhere on them, but the MC2150 I got with the truck had .056 jets and were larger than the existing in the knock off carb.
I swapped them out, reset timing to 10*, and truck runs 100% better now. Only ping I get is in high gear about 45 mph and full into the skinny pedal, that near the bottom end of 3rd, as I do not have the kick down trans linkage connected yet but it is peppy. Driveable now, just need to keep my foot out of it and NOT drive it like my dad owns it. I break it, I gotta pay and fix it myself.
Only complaint I have with it, and has been this way since we got it running, it does not want to start when warm, and starter cranks real hard/slow. Replaced the original I got it with using a rebuilt from Rock Auto for about $50 shipped. Starts great when cold, or after truck sits for a few minutes while I run in to do a little shopping, but to be driving it, stop & shut it off for just a minute or two, cranks so slow will not start. All cables/connections new or cleaned & tight, so looking like I need to get a reduction starter, as when warm the compression is too much for the cheaper starter.

Old MC2150 jets .056
20231008_105519 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20231008_104824 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

[devildog80]

Here is some info I am getting back from the AMC Forum, which those guys are crazy technical with their engines, but I really do not want to disassemble mine to measure everything to know exactly what I have......but someday might be what needs done?
Thoughts

Here's the trouble I see it's a 401 block the intake and manifold you're using is off of a 74 360 are the heads also off of that 74 360 now we do not know the compression ratio because somebody could have worked on the Block you could have a high compression block it might not be stock. It might not even be it an IH 401 the Holly 2110 would have been on it that carb more than likely it would have been the 500 CFM than the 200cfm Now you putting a 325 cfm carb on it from a 80s jeep on it. Changing to a little bit larger jet did help but you're having a hard time hot starting cranking slow can be caused by high compression or timing off you pulled back the timing and it's still hard starting and not helping at all could be the starter going out or it could be the timing still because back in the day installing the timing chain some of use had a set up to run it +4 or -4 on the chain I know a guy still cussing me out because of this one on one of my old Motors he bought from his son. He told him it was stock and i had a big old 304 duration Cam in it on -4 degrees. And 12 to 1 compression ratio but back in the day I could buy race gas for $2 a gallon compared to nowadays it's 14 dollars a gallon these motors are old you never know what somebody did to them unless you take them apart and inspect them and measure everything including the cam. I still see guys going to Summit Racing to get a recommended cam and it's the largest thing you ever seen or they just pick out the biggest camshaft they can get. And nothing matches making no power or pinging them to death.

[tgreese]

You can buy Motorcraft jets - https://www.carburetor-parts.com/Motorc ... _2295.html If I did not have an air-fuel mixture meter, I'd look at the spark plugs to get an idea of the mixture. White-tan-black lean-good-rich. There are lots of articles and charts online about reading spark plugs.

To me, a "high compression block" means someone decked the block. There's only so much (or none?) of that you can do without losing the quench space between the piston and the head. I understood that the deck height was more or less fixed by the stroke and the piston design. Maybe the writer means high compression pistons in the block? You could look at the piston tops with a bore scope and see if there is a obvious raised top that would raise compression. Maybe ask what the factory pistons look like - I suspect they have a dish and valve reliefs. The picture on RockAuto shows a piston with quite a lot of dish. https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/jee ... iston,5620

Compression ratio is also affected by cam timing, ie the sooner the valve closes, the larger the charge volume and the higher the compression. This is something you can measure externally, I presume. It's also possible to adjust cam timing at the cam gear with the right parts, but that's going beyond my depth.