Getting started on a 74 Chief

[Chief_of_Chiefs]

Hi all -

First post but figured I'd poll the masses.

I have a 74 Jeep Cherokee and am going to LS swap it. So far I have a 5.3 engine, a 4l80e and a NP 205 (passenger side drop). Nothing has been changed on the jeep yet other than it has zero drive line from the previous owner and the suspension likely needs a rebuild. Considering 33's, a small lift, and sending it. Needs interior love BAD. For now it's going to be the winter vehicle here in Missouri, but will eventually become a fun 3 -5 day over-lander build for me and one other person.

I've built a bunch of hot rods and ls swapped vehicles, but this is my first Jeep and 4x4 build. Thought and ideas are welcome. Mostly concerned about the 4l80e and the NP 205 decision right now. I know I'll need a conversion setup from Novak or another spot. Thanks for the read! Pic's in a couple weeks, it's at my friends house for now,

[will e]

Howdy from Pheonix! You've come to the right place for information and encouragement. I think there are a few LS swap threads you can start to dig through, that should help. The NP205 is a good transfer case. What kind of budget are you looking at? I eventually swapped in an Atlas 4 speed (2.0, 2.72, 5.44). The range of gears and being twin sticked is great but they are expensive.

[Chief_of_Chiefs]

Howdy from Pheonix! You've come to the right place for information and encouragement. I think there are a few LS swap threads you can start to dig through, that should help. The NP205 is a good transfer case. What kind of budget are you looking at? I eventually swapped in an Atlas 4 speed (2.0, 2.72, 5.44). The range of gears and being twin sticked is great but they are expensive.

Thanks for the reply! I looked at some builds and googled the atlas transfer case last week.. really cool but too much for me in this version of the build. I plan on twin sticking the np 205 for now. Hard parts are purchased. May put a cam in the 5.3 if needed but it makes more power than the 360 or 401(?).. so maybe not? Paint is actually on it still and has an interesting patina, I may just CLR and clear it for this version of the build. Interior may be a set of front seats to save my back (modern jeep maybe?) and will invest in sound deadening and maybe a vinyl mat.. not sure about carpet for this use case (but the sound deadening would be nice) Rims may be re used and powder-coated, needs bigger tires. Looking at a skyjacker 4" lift at this time of writing with the M95 shocks because mono tube and I dont have to buy better later I'm guessing (maybe a better shock recommendation around that price point?). Going to run a Holley terminator X max. Other than that, I think that's about it. Oh ya, hydro boost and a rear axle disk brake conversion. Any recommendations for the front brakes other than a rotor upgrade or are they fine as is?

Yea.. that post is all over the place. haha.

[Yeller]

Welcome!

Sounds similar to my build 6.0 4L80e and 241c. A 3.0 atlas is in the works. Wrestled a long time between a 205 and the atlas. Came down to wanted an atlas, I’ve had 205’s and atlas’s, to me they are worth the expense. The 205 is a great case, by the time it gets rebuilt, do the machine work to change the input (unless you can find a turbo 400 model), buy the adapters, buy or make a twin stick, it’s not that much of a difference in price. A link to my build thread is in my signature.

What part of Missouri are you in? I’m not far southeast of the border.

[Chief_of_Chiefs]

Welcome!

Sounds similar to my build 6.0 4L80e and 241c. A 3.0 atlas is in the works. Wrestled a long time between a 205 and the atlas. Came down to wanted an atlas, I’ve had 205’s and atlas’s, to me they are worth the expense. The 205 is a great case, by the time it gets rebuilt, do the machine work to change the input (unless you can find a turbo 400 model), buy the adapters, buy or make a twin stick, it’s not that much of a difference in price. A link to my build thread is in my signature.

What part of Missouri are you in? I’m not far southeast of the border.

Ok.. now I'm interested in the atlas a bit I suppose. I hate doing things twice.. Do you have a solid supplier for an atlas that you recommend? When I searched a while back many were out of stock and around $3500.00. I know the adapter for np205 to 4l80e is about $1k and I want to say twin sticks were about $400.. haven't found anyone to rebuild the 205 yet but have been told they are pretty stout.

I'm near Lebanon, Mo. but the Jeep is outside of Cabot, Ar for now.. hopefully up here before it starts getting to cold and ugly out.

[rocklaurence]

Why not use a common T-case that will bolt the the 480? Buying an adapter to use the NP205 [2:1 ratio] dosn't gain you an advantage. Is your Chief a Quadratrac?

[Yeller]

I always buy atlas’s direct from Advance Adapters. They currently are running 16-20 weeks‍

Unless you have a 2wd 4l80e you will need an adapter from Advance Adapters that has the speed sensor in it. If it is a 2wd you may get lucky and just get a $65 OEM adapter from Amazon and cut the shaft off to the correct length. The 2wd has the rear speed sensor in the case, the 4x4 ones have it in the transfer case.

Advance will tell you the atlas will not bolt up to the OEM case, true sort of…. The top bolt does not line up, I’ve found it can be left out successfully. Depending on the adapter it may or may not be able to drive out. I own 2 vehicles with only 5 of the 6 bolts, been that way for 11 and 18 years without any issues. Both of those get used in ways that you have to be crazy to do lol

[Chief_of_Chiefs]

Why not use a common T-case that will bolt the the 480? Buying an adapter to use the NP205 [2:1 ratio] dosn't gain you an advantage. Is your Chief a Quadratrac?

No Driveline in the Chief so everything is up for debate,

Why not the 205? I read they are really strong. I'm not trying to crawl with it, maybe get up some hills and get to remote locations. For now it's normal duty will be in case I get stuck in snow or ice. Is there a t-case you recommend that isn't computer controlled that suits the setup better?

[Yeller]

Absolutely nothing wrong with a 205. It just requires the correct adapters and the correct version for our trucks. Even with transmission with a 205 attached to it, it still needs to be “clocked” so the front output doesn’t drag the ground, which requires an aftermarket adapter. There are multiple versions for multiple transmissions, passenger or driver drop and even a divorce mounted version.

I was going to put one in mine, but when I got to 2/3 of the price of an atlas with me doing the labor I just ordered an atlas.

[rocklaurence]

Oh, I was implying that going with all LS/Chevy drive train would save on not having to buy adapters and the NP241C has a better Low Range of 2.71:1. Yeller's setup is the way to go and you can spend the money saved on Bigger tires

[Chief_of_Chiefs]

Absolutely nothing wrong with a 205. It just requires the correct adapters and the correct version for our trucks. Even with transmission with a 205 attached to it, it still needs to be “clocked” so the front output doesn’t drag the ground, which requires an aftermarket adapter. There are multiple versions for multiple transmissions, passenger or driver drop and even a divorce mounted version.

I was going to put one in mine, but when I got to 2/3 of the price of an atlas with me doing the labor I just ordered an atlas.

Sounds good! I'll have to see if I can find the right adapter then. I wonder if it comes with the kit?

One of these rings? (I have the figure 8 np205)
https://northwestfab.com/products/np205 ... cking-ring

[Chief_of_Chiefs]

Oh, I was implying that going with all LS/Chevy drive train would save on not having to buy adapters and the NP241C has a better Low Range of 2.71:1. Yeller's setup is the way to go and you can spend the money saved on Bigger tires

Right on! Yea.. already have the hard parts so now it's just mostly modifications to them or the supporting components.

[Chief_of_Chiefs]

Any feedback on the lift and shocks I'm looking at? I have zero experience with 4x4 specific products sooo not sure if skyjacker and the M95 shocks are good?

[Chief_of_Chiefs]

Also, whats the best set of new seals people use for FSJ Cherokees? Also are the rear side glass seals hard to come by? I was going to pull all the glass, neutralize the rust and clear over it with the windows out for best results.

[will e]

If you go with the Atlas, consider going with a 4spd. It gives you a lot of options while wheeling. I love the 2.0 for faster 'river washes' kind of stuff (usually rear wheel only) and the 2.72 is good for general crawling, shelf roads, etc. When it gets a bit hairy the 5.44 really adds to the level of control. The planetary gear is 2.72 and then you decide what you want in the case. There are about half a dozen options but don't get too tempted with really low ratios. We typically don't need them. I found 5.44 total reduction to be fine. What I did was watch for used units. I searched pirate almost every day and one finally popped up after about 6 months or so. I had to swap out the input shaft but that was pretty easy. Altas has been great supporting me even though I bought it used. (Mine had never been installed, it was dry when I got it).

I believe the 1974 year was a 'weird' year for suspensions but someone else will chime in. For a fun overlander you can get away with about 4" of lift and 31" tires. If you want bigger tires you'll need to go to 6" and at that point start looking at SOA/SF options.

[Yeller]

Absolutely nothing wrong with a 205. It just requires the correct adapters and the correct version for our trucks. Even with transmission with a 205 attached to it, it still needs to be “clocked” so the front output doesn’t drag the ground, which requires an aftermarket adapter. There are multiple versions for multiple transmissions, passenger or driver drop and even a divorce mounted version.

I was going to put one in mine, but when I got to 2/3 of the price of an atlas with me doing the labor I just ordered an atlas.

Sounds good! I'll have to see if I can find the right adapter then. I wonder if it comes with the kit?

One of these rings? (I have the figure 8 np205)
https://northwestfab.com/products/np205 ... cking-ring

Here’s a list of of all the parts needed to mate and rebuild a 205 to a 4l80e. Not to discourage you or anyone else, it’s not inexpensive or just bolt it up simple.

This adapter will be required for an Atlas or 205 transfer case with a 4x4 transmission, without it the output speed sensor is missing and it won’t shift.
https://www.advanceadapters.com/4573

If by chance you have a 2wd transmission and it has the “RV” style output that is splined its entire length, you can use this adapter and just cut the output to the correct length.
https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-15724745 ... c32f&psc=1

That’s the right direction, and almost… you’ll need this one
https://northwestfab.com/products/large ... 7c44&_ss=r

And this one
https://northwestfab.com/products/np205 ... eq=uniform

Labor for this
https://www.offroaddesign.com/labor-to- ... aring.html

One of these
https://www.offroaddesign.com/np205-inp ... pline.html

One of these
https://jb-custom-fabrication.myshopify ... dge-deluxe

One of these
https://jb-custom-fabrication.myshopify ... ck-shifter

And last but not least all the small parts
https://jb-custom-fabrication.myshopify ... late-model

This was all part of the reasoning for my decision to purchase an atlas. If I counted the price of my labor it cost more than the atlas.

Another option is a 241c, it bolts up with one of the round clocking rings above, but it will require a slip yolk eliminator, the length of the entire engine, transmission, and transfer case gets long and needs some help reducing that overall length to prevent drive line vibrations.

Driveline vibrations is another thing, if it originally had a quadratrac, you may need to swap the rear axle to a centered differential to alleviate vibrations.

[Chief_of_Chiefs]

If you go with the Atlas, consider going with a 4spd. It gives you a lot of options while wheeling. I love the 2.0 for faster 'river washes' kind of stuff (usually rear wheel only) and the 2.72 is good for general crawling, shelf roads, etc. When it gets a bit hairy the 5.44 really adds to the level of control. The planetary gear is 2.72 and then you decide what you want in the case. There are about half a dozen options but don't get too tempted with really low ratios. We typically don't need them. I found 5.44 total reduction to be fine. What I did was watch for used units. I searched pirate almost every day and one finally popped up after about 6 months or so. I had to swap out the input shaft but that was pretty easy. Altas has been great supporting me even though I bought it used. (Mine had never been installed, it was dry when I got it).

I believe the 1974 year was a 'weird' year for suspensions but someone else will chime in. For a fun overlander you can get away with about 4" of lift and 31" tires. If you want bigger tires you'll need to go to 6" and at that point start looking at SOA/SF options.

Thanks! I guess I'll go with the 4" lift then.

[Chief_of_Chiefs]

Absolutely nothing wrong with a 205. It just requires the correct adapters and the correct version for our trucks. Even with transmission with a 205 attached to it, it still needs to be “clocked” so the front output doesn’t drag the ground, which requires an aftermarket adapter. There are multiple versions for multiple transmissions, passenger or driver drop and even a divorce mounted version.

I was going to put one in mine, but when I got to 2/3 of the price of an atlas with me doing the labor I just ordered an atlas.

Sounds good! I'll have to see if I can find the right adapter then. I wonder if it comes with the kit?

One of these rings? (I have the figure 8 np205)
https://northwestfab.com/products/np205 ... cking-ring

Here’s a list of of all the parts needed to mate and rebuild a 205 to a 4l80e. Not to discourage you or anyone else, it’s not inexpensive or just bolt it up simple.

This adapter will be required for an Atlas or 205 transfer case with a 4x4 transmission, without it the output speed sensor is missing and it won’t shift.
https://www.advanceadapters.com/4573

If by chance you have a 2wd transmission and it has the “RV” style output that is splined its entire length, you can use this adapter and just cut the output to the correct length.
https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-15724745 ... c32f&psc=1

That’s the right direction, and almost… you’ll need this one
https://northwestfab.com/products/large ... 7c44&_ss=r

And this one
https://northwestfab.com/products/np205 ... eq=uniform

Labor for this
https://www.offroaddesign.com/labor-to- ... aring.html

One of these
https://www.offroaddesign.com/np205-inp ... pline.html

One of these
https://jb-custom-fabrication.myshopify ... dge-deluxe

One of these
https://jb-custom-fabrication.myshopify ... ck-shifter

And last but not least all the small parts
https://jb-custom-fabrication.myshopify ... late-model

This was all part of the reasoning for my decision to purchase an atlas. If I counted the price of my labor it cost more than the atlas.

Another option is a 241c, it bolts up with one of the round clocking rings above, but it will require a slip yolk eliminator, the length of the entire engine, transmission, and transfer case gets long and needs some help reducing that overall length to prevent drive line vibrations.

Driveline vibrations is another thing, if it originally had a quadratrac, you may need to swap the rear axle to a centered differential to alleviate vibrations.

I thought I could use this kit?
https://advanceadapters.com/gm-4l80-4wd ... 4-fig-8-tc

I may have to look at the 241c if this doesn't do it. That's more work than I have time for in this instance.

I also have a 2wd 4l80e that I picked up for rebuild.

[Yeller]

I thought I could use this kit?
https://advanceadapters.com/gm-4l80-4wd ... 4-fig-8-tc

I may have to look at the 241c if this doesn't do it. That's more work than I have time for in this instance.

I also have a 2wd 4l80e that I picked up for rebuild.
[/quote]

That’s a fantastic kit! The transfercase will still need to be completely torn down and the input bearing hole needs to be bored out to 90mm, the original male input uses a smaller diameter bearing. You will also need the figure 8 clocking/indexing adapter to raise the front output, without it the transfer case will hang about 4” below the frame. Also keep in mind you still have to have a way to shift it. The factory type single stick shifter is notorious for being difficult to shift, the shift rails and shifter from JB Fab greatly improve shift quality.

The 2wd transmission helps simplify the wiring and installation. If the output shaft is splined its entire length it can be cut to the correct length, if it does not, it will need a 4x4 output shaft installed.

[Chief_of_Chiefs]

I thought I could use this kit?
https://advanceadapters.com/gm-4l80-4wd ... 4-fig-8-tc

I may have to look at the 241c if this doesn't do it. That's more work than I have time for in this instance.

I also have a 2wd 4l80e that I picked up for rebuild.

That’s a fantastic kit! The transfercase will still need to be completely torn down and the input bearing hole needs to be bored out to 90mm, the original male input uses a smaller diameter bearing. You will also need the figure 8 clocking/indexing adapter to raise the front output, without it the transfer case will hang about 4” below the frame. Also keep in mind you still have to have a way to shift it. The factory type single stick shifter is notorious for being difficult to shift, the shift rails and shifter from JB Fab greatly improve shift quality.

The 2wd transmission helps simplify the wiring and installation. If the output shaft is splined its entire length it can be cut to the correct length, if it does not, it will need a 4x4 output shaft installed.
[/quote]


Thanks for the feedback! I'll call the shop on monday to see if they can bore out the case during the rebuild. More to follow!

Now to look into suspension. Skyjacker? Thoughts?

Also I want to replace the rear side glass seals when I shoot another coat of clear on it. Havent found them yet though so I may have to just deal with it.