Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

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candymancan
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Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by candymancan »

So i got my Jeep back together.. again.. found out my ticking/tapping in another tjread i made was 3-4 exhaust leaks on the drivers side manifold. Its patched for now.. noise is gone.. valve cover back on..

And i got my new oil pressure sending unit in. Unfortunatly oil pressure is still low. The old unit stopped working 2 years ago and i had 60psi on interstate.. and bout 20 idle in gear at 650rpm. When the engine is HOT of course.

The old unit once i got it to work again.. Shows im getting around 48psi interstate driving. And idle in gear 650rpm is 10psi. At idle in park around 800rpm its about 15psi. New sending unit. Same thing.

This is using 10-30 oil. Soo im think maybe i gatta go to 10-40 oil now. Might grab some stp bottle for now as i dont feel like draining this 10-30 oil and wasting it.

So i guess all i can do is use thicker oil ? Engine sounds the same. Idles good.. the bearing caps when i did the rear main look fine still from 4 years ago.. So im not sure why the oil pressure has dropped.

Anyway. Thanks
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)
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tgreese
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by tgreese »

Can't explain the change. I would connect a mechanical oil pressure gauge and be more confident in my measurements. As a test tool, this Summit gauge is good - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g2934 - installation kit included.

48 on the highway and 10-15 at idle is ok. A good rule of thumb is 10 psi per 1000 RPM.

You can recondition the oil pump (that's not replace the gears - lap the cover - see Ristow's post on the mother ship). If that does not help, your bearings are worn and there's no cure for that other than a rebuild.
Last edited by tgreese on Thu Mar 02, 2023 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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Yeller
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by Yeller »

Second the mechanical gauge, the original electrics are hints at best.
The bus I ride is so short it is a yellow Smart Car full of squirrels, monkeys and clowns.

1970 J2500 Resto Mod
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will e
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by will e »

Mechanical gauge. Cheap and easy to connect. If nothing else just to get an understanding of the 'difference' between what you see in cab and with the mechanical. Then you can always do a little bit of math in your head.

I went with an aftermarket gauge with a 'stepper motor'. Almost as fast a read as a mechanical. In addition I added an 'idiot' light, pretty easy to do. Since I don't watch the gauges like a hawk the additional lite (LED) will grab my attention.
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge

sierrablue
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by sierrablue »

Fourth on the mechanical gauge. I don't remember who, but somebody on IFSJA has the very valid sig "Jeep gauges are for amusement only. Any correlation between them and reality is purely coincidental."

I'd recommend the 10-40 anyway due to the high zinc content. And up here I run it when it's -25°F and haven't run into anything from it being too thick, so there's really no reason not to.

Depending how much you've driven it over the past two years, it's not terribly surprising that it has low oil pressure, especially after reading what other stuff you've gotten done on your engine recently.

Also, just a note, when I put the engine that's in my Jeep now together (got it used), it had about 2 psi of oil pressure hot idle, just enough to move the mechanical gauge. I put a high volume oil pump in it and made it leak less, and now it's at a solid 20 psi when it's not low (10W-40). The AMCs also have an external oil pump--you might consider getting the parts to at least rebuild it, if not put in a high volume kit. Oil pumps of the style that the Buick and AMC have have a tendency to wear down the plates they sit against, which changes the clearances, and thus gives you less pressure. It's possible, especially since you said the bearings look good, that that's all it is. There also should be a spring that controls the point where the valve opens to bleed the pressure--I don't know how available options are for that on the AMC but you should be able to put a stiffer spring in there. Now, if it's not building enough pressure to open the valve, it won't change anything, but otherwise it should help. I have the stock 40 psi spring in mine rn, although I've been debating upping it to 60. Pretty sure it won't be at 60 cruising but it would allow it to get higher than 40 if it wants.

Another thing about the AMCs/Buicks is that they tend to have lower oil pressure than other engines do. Ideally I've heard 20 at idle plus 10 for every 1000 rpms after that, but these engines will be fine as long as they have some oil pressure at idle. Anything over 10 shouldn't be an issue in the short run, although it may be a sign that things are getting worn.

Sorry for the long response--I had questionable oil pressure with the last motor and have had LOTS of oiling/oil pump issues with this one, so I've done a lot of digging on it.
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.

OldFarmTruck22
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by OldFarmTruck22 »

You can buy a new lower housing for your oil pump. Those get wear grooves in them from the steel gears against the aluminum housing, and it cuts the oil pressure way down. I would get the entire kit, it's only a few dollars more. Includes the lower housing, gasket, new gears, new spring, and new plunger.

MAae sure you check your clearances with Plastiguage when you do your initial install of the new kit.

I wasn't aware that there were different spring tensions available. I'd like to see the listings for those.
78 FSJ AMC 360 Quadratrac
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tgreese
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by tgreese »

If you search, there are dozens of threads here and at IFSJA that cover this issue and how to refurbish the AMC V8 oil pump. The topic has been flogged over and over and over. It's even covered in every year of the TSM (imagine that!) Wear of the oil pump cavity is a significant problem with these engines, though some engines go for hundreds of thousands of miles with no problem. (Chance? Oil changes? No way to be certain.)

The symptom is low hot idle oil pressure. Many times that's the oil pump gear clearances, but not always. It's the aluminum housing that wears, not the gears. If the pressure is low enough, a rod bearing makes metal to metal contact and that's the end.

If you have this problem, suggest you do some homework before you spend a bunch of money on new parts that might not solve your problem.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
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OldFarmTruck22
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by OldFarmTruck22 »

The original poster Candyman says he checked the bearings and they looked fine.
The next logical and EASIEST thing to look at is the external oil pump.
If this engine has over 50,000 miles on it there could be wear in there. No need to pull your engine out and tear it down if you haven't looked into the oil pump yet.
Buy the whole kit, and do it right, whether it needs it or not.
There ... homework done. lol
78 FSJ AMC 360 Quadratrac
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tgreese
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by tgreese »

From what I've read, the second most common cause of LHIOP is delaminating cam bearings. Some of these engines have that problem. Obviously, this won't show up with a crankshaft inspection. Search and you will find discussion.

The oil pump gear clearance can be measured. If out of spec, it can be corrected without buying much more than a gasket. Naively replacing the gears (an oil pump "repair kit") won't change anything, and could be worse.

Or guess and spend a bunch of money and install the new parts. Up to you. If it doesn't help, then you've tested your guess.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

OldFarmTruck22
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by OldFarmTruck22 »

tgreese wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 11:21 am From what I've read, the second most common cause of LHIOP is delaminating cam bearings. Some of these engines have that problem. Obviously, this won't show up with a crankshaft inspection. Search and you will find discussion.

The oil pump gear clearance can be measured. If out of spec, it can be corrected without buying much more than a gasket. Naively replacing the gears (an oil pump "repair kit") won't change anything, and could be worse.

Or guess and spend a bunch of money and install the new parts. Up to you. If it doesn't help, then you've tested your guess.
When you pull main bearing caps, you see bearings.
So I'll share my experience on this pump problem. I had low pressure too at 100,000 miles. I dropped the lower pump housing and found a number of problems. I would not have found these problems without removing the housing, I want to make that clear. I found the aluminum housing had deep scores in it where the bottom of the gears make contact. BTW, they ride there, they don't float in suspension, they ride there because Gravity. I also found that the gears had apparently 'ate' something in the life of the motor. They were dinged up and missing some 'tooth' material. I would not have known this unless I removed the outer housing. I found the plunger had a loose fit in it's channel too. So, I bought the rebuild kit that includes the lower housing and everything I listed above. For $35.00 there was no better way to spend $35.00 for my truck.
Rather than hypothesizing what the possible problems might be, I took 7 small bolts out and looked into it. Damn glad I did. Pressure is much better now.
Also, you must check your dry clearances with PlastiGuage for the new gears, new housing, and new gasket before deciding to pack the housing with petroleum jelly and seal it up. Those tolerances are critical to good pressure.
78 FSJ AMC 360 Quadratrac

sierrablue
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by sierrablue »

tgreese wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 11:21 am From what I've read, the second most common cause of LHIOP is delaminating cam bearings. Some of these engines have that problem. Obviously, this won't show up with a crankshaft inspection. Search and you will find discussion.

The oil pump gear clearance can be measured. If out of spec, it can be corrected without buying much more than a gasket. Naively replacing the gears (an oil pump "repair kit") won't change anything, and could be worse.

Or guess and spend a bunch of money and install the new parts. Up to you. If it doesn't help, then you've tested your guess.
I've read the same thing about cam bearings. Usually that brings overheating and a bunch of other problems with it though, according to what I've read.

I think in this case, regardless of the cam bearings and whatnot, the oil pump kit isn't going to hurt anything, except maybe the wallet a little. If they're like the Buick oil pumps, you can put a steel booster plate in between the gears and the lower plate--it will not only last longer than the aluminum plate but also means you don't have to replace the aluminum one.

As far as the springs go, I have no idea if the AMC ones have springs available, or anything like that. The Buicks do for sure, and I've also read that if you put washers in before the spring, you can make the pressure go up that way too. Supposedly on the Buicks at least, you can add washers until it literally makes the can on the oil filter explode. I have no idea why anyone tried that or would want anywhere near that kind of pressure, but somebody did it.

Changing the gasket exclusively won't change any clearances unless you put a thinner gasket in. It may help with pressure if you have a leak there, but otherwise it won't change anything. Also, since I know you like RTV a lot, do NOT use RTV on these pumps--it is too thick and will cause horribly low oil pressure (and maybe none at all if the gear doesn't reach up to the distributor). The stock paper thin gaskets are the way to go.

I think with 150ishk miles it's not unreasonable to assume there is some wear in there. I wouldn't replace the gears unless you buy/put in a high volume pump, as they last a LONG time. It sounds like your bearings have all been checking out, so I wouldn't put a high volume pump. The only reason yours given what you've said MIGHT need it is if the cam bearing is bad, as Tim suggested. The only other reason to replace the gears is if you take it apart, and like OldFarmTruck22, find that something's been through there and messed it up.

I've never measured the clearances except for around the gears when I installed the extension piece for the high volume function. I know there's a way to, but I think at the stage you're at, you'll know if it's terribly worn or not. If there are chewed up marks from the gears in the lower plate, it's worn. Otherwise it's probably ok.

Also, since you'll be disassembling the oil pump, you'll probably want to take out the distributor and prime the oil pump like you would a new engine. I have gone without doing it before, and just let it run at low idle for a minute or so, and it makes a sucking sound, and then stops clacking, as the oil pressure gauge rises.

Again, not 100% sure how the AMC pumps are put together, or where to find parts, but I know the style, as they work and are put together like the Buicks. Also sorry for another long response.
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.

letank
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by letank »

Of course the easiest and cleanest way is to test your oil pressure gauge and sender as explained in the TSM with resistors paired with the matching oil pressure, you test the gauge, you test the sender with 3 measurements, high or 80psi, mid or 40 and idle pressure ... I need to find the number as the 86 and newer FSJ have the reverse resistance from the older guys.

If the resistors give you the correct values with the vehicle at operating temp then it is the sender, if the values are off it is the gauge...

Page 8E-34 on the 89 which is similar to 86 to 91... for the instrument panel

1psi is 1 ohm, 40 psi is 40 ohms and 80psi is 90 ohms

you can built something like this -wrong resistance, this is for the early models-

Image

or be on the one time use -wrong resistance, this is for a german car-

Image

or fancier for different models, stashed in a mint box
Image

and back to your question.... I have 227K on the 85 and suspect that nothing has been done at the time of purchase 20ish years ago with 170ish miles... still on good oil pressure, and yes there was a time when the pressure was rocking a bit after a few hours of driving... until I did the CVR bypass... same on the 74... with 349Kmiles... still holding well, yes I replaced the sender at least once... and the timing cover, oil pump around 120Kmiles
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)
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tgreese
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by tgreese »

sierrablue wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 4:51 pm
tgreese wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 11:21 am From what I've read, the second most common cause of LHIOP is delaminating cam bearings. Some of these engines have that problem. Obviously, this won't show up with a crankshaft inspection. Search and you will find discussion.

The oil pump gear clearance can be measured. If out of spec, it can be corrected without buying much more than a gasket. Naively replacing the gears (an oil pump "repair kit") won't change anything, and could be worse.

Or guess and spend a bunch of money and install the new parts. Up to you. If it doesn't help, then you've tested your guess.
... I think in this case, regardless of the cam bearings and whatnot, the oil pump kit isn't going to hurt anything, except maybe the wallet a little. ...
Yeah the gear kit is only ca $25 or so. Bull Tear has a complete kit that goes for ca $500 that includes a new timing cover.

I was hoping to point out that the aluminum timing cover wears out, not the gears. Iron gears turning in an aluminum housing. Lots of coverage online about refurbishing the cover. As above, there may be rare instances where the gears need replacing, though as I recall they just fall out if you take the oil pump cover aka oil filter adapter off. Easy to inspect.

The TSM tells you how to measure the gear end clearance. You can use Plastigage or feeler gauges, same principle. The gears sit proud of the housing, and the clearance is determined by the thickness of the gasket. Lots of good info in the TSM; makes good bedtime reading ... you'll dream of Jeeps and car work.

There is some risk taking the oil pump cover off if you use the gasket supplied in the kit. You should still measure.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

Topic author
candymancan
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by candymancan »

Wow thabks for all the info.. off topic.. which exhaust manifold gaskets do you all recomend ? My patchs worked on my manifold and my horrible knocking noises went away.. but the patchs blew and it came back.. and now i also have a loss of power like hesistation like i have a wind gust blowing against the jeep then it moves then pauses then moves. I could barely go to 60mph laat night it was weird. Almost like i wasnt getting fuel.

I did replace the plug wires but it ran fine into town but not back after the patchs on the manifold blew.

So im leaving it parked and just gatta do this exhaust before i mess with other things. So anyway the copper gaskets have dog leg ports whatever that means ?? I read regilar gaskets always leak and to use copper.

But i cant find any without these dog legs on the end bolts ? Can anyone point me in the right way. Sorry it just seems im having all kinds of issies crop up on my jeeps and its overwhelming me
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)

letank
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by letank »

candymancan wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 3:37 pm Wow thabks for all the info.. off topic.. which exhaust manifold gaskets do you all recomend ?

But i cant find any without these dog legs on the end bolts ? Can anyone point me in the right way. Sorry it just seems im having all kinds of issies crop up on my jeeps and its overwhelming me
I have used the Mr gasket copper gasket, MRG 7174, has the dog leg, here is a link, summit has them as well

https://www.4wheelparts.com/p/mr-gasket ... f19157a7c0
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)

sierrablue
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by sierrablue »

tgreese wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:55 am
sierrablue wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 4:51 pm
tgreese wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 11:21 am From what I've read, the second most common cause of LHIOP is delaminating cam bearings. Some of these engines have that problem. Obviously, this won't show up with a crankshaft inspection. Search and you will find discussion.

The oil pump gear clearance can be measured. If out of spec, it can be corrected without buying much more than a gasket. Naively replacing the gears (an oil pump "repair kit") won't change anything, and could be worse.

Or guess and spend a bunch of money and install the new parts. Up to you. If it doesn't help, then you've tested your guess.
... I think in this case, regardless of the cam bearings and whatnot, the oil pump kit isn't going to hurt anything, except maybe the wallet a little. ...
Yeah the gear kit is only ca $25 or so. Bull Tear has a complete kit that goes for ca $500 that includes a new timing cover.

I was hoping to point out that the aluminum timing cover wears out, not the gears. Iron gears turning in an aluminum housing. Lots of coverage online about refurbishing the cover. As above, there may be rare instances where the gears need replacing, though as I recall they just fall out if you take the oil pump cover aka oil filter adapter off. Easy to inspect.

The TSM tells you how to measure the gear end clearance. You can use Plastigage or feeler gauges, same principle. The gears sit proud of the housing, and the clearance is determined by the thickness of the gasket. Lots of good info in the TSM; makes good bedtime reading ... you'll dream of Jeeps and car work.

There is some risk taking the oil pump cover off if you use the gasket supplied in the kit. You should still measure.
Yes, the gasket can change the clearances, but on the Buicks at least, it's just a paper thin gasket. There's no option to have it thicker/thinner.
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.

sierrablue
Posts: 1208
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:02 pm
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by sierrablue »

letank wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 4:58 pm
candymancan wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 3:37 pm Wow thabks for all the info.. off topic.. which exhaust manifold gaskets do you all recomend ?

But i cant find any without these dog legs on the end bolts ? Can anyone point me in the right way. Sorry it just seems im having all kinds of issies crop up on my jeeps and its overwhelming me
I have used the Mr gasket copper gasket, MRG 7174, has the dog leg, here is a link, summit has them as well

https://www.4wheelparts.com/p/mr-gasket ... f19157a7c0
I agree get copper gaskets. Then when it leaks again you can tighten it back down and it'll shut up for awhile. And when you decide to put headers on because the manifolds are shot, you can keep using the copper gaskets.
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.

Topic author
candymancan
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by candymancan »

so what is the purpose of the dog leg ? and what are those rubber looking o rings for ? anyone have a link for the manifold bolts ? it doesnt look it, but i am told the 4 outer are 5/16th and 2 inner are 3.8 i cant seem to find a kit for them
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)
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tgreese
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by tgreese »

Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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tgreese
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Re: Low oil pressure ? What can i do ?

Post by tgreese »

These may not be long enough for the original iron manifolds.

https://www.holley.com/products/fastene ... arts/2210G

I would reuse the original bolts, unless I broke one. If so, hardware store after extraction. Wire brush and copper anti-sieze.

The '87-90 parts book on the Tom Collins site should show them, but probably won't tell you anything useful other than the number of each size and length (but no size and length info).

If you need extras, you could put studs in the end bolts and hang the gaskets and manifolds on those. Looks like that's what they intend with the open gasket ends.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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