Front End Rebuild Assistance - UPDATE!

[Greg72]

Suggest you read the factory parts book and search by Jeep part number. Parts support is limited for these vehicles.

Hi tgreese,

You mean these part numbers? Are these available through the places like Team Grand Wagoneer, BJs Offroad, etc. Or are these going to be from a Jeep Dealership or from scouring eBay?





Thanks!

-G

[tgreese]

That's from the 88J book on the Tom Collins site? Yes. Except for the Grand Wagoneer, not the Wrangler.

I would start at RockAuto and use their part number index. You can also search the net for the number, ie "52002540 Jeep"

https://www.bing.com/search?form=MOZLBR ... 02540+Jeep

Don't expect too much. Seems a bit optimistic to expect Dana parts for stuff like this. Ball joints yes. Jeep dealerships may not even have the books for '89, much less have any inventory even nationwide. There are "dealerships" with web sites that list many of these part numbers online, but don't expect them to actually have the parts. The import parts are likely all you'll find easily, if that. These Jeeps do not support an extensive aftermarket in parts; too few of them.

[Greg72]

That's from the 88J book on the Tom Collins site? Yes.

I would start at RockAuto and use their part number index. You can also search the net for the number, ie "52002540 Jeep"

https://www.bing.com/search?form=MOZLBR ... 02540+Jeep

Don't expect too much. Seems a bit optimistic to expect Dana OEM parts for stuff like this. The import parts are likely all you'll find easily, if that. These Jeeps do not support an extensive aftermarket in parts; too few of them.

I see, thanks for the explanation.

My objective is to use the highest quality parts available as I go through and "baseline" this new-to-me 1989 Grand Wagoneer. The steering is downright terrifying now and I'm sure it's mostly due to worn tie rods, draglink ends and balljoints. Swapping all of that out with new items will probably get me 90% of the way there.....as I've got no information about how long ago this work was done by the P.O.

Is there a generally accepted continuum for parts quality from the more mainstream suppliers?

- Moog
- Dana / Spicer
- Crown
- TRW
- Delphi
- Dorman
- ACDelco
- MevoTech

If I can't get the original OEM stuff... I'd at least like to get the best available quality from an upper-tier manufacturer.

Thanks (again)

-G

[tgreese]

Only opinions, nothing scientific.

Re parts, Dana is tops. Moog was good decades ago, but they've cut their coverage a lot. The other "USA" brands like Delphi are likely reboxed import stuff - place your bets and take your chances. Crown is more likely a good part than Omix, but both are importers.

Note that you show the page for Wrangler, not Grand Wagoneer.

Jeeps, esp the GW are oddballs compared to say Ford or GM. Ford makes something like a million light trucks annually. Jeep would be killing it if they made 1/50th that many FSJs in their best years.

What do you mean by OEM? There are no records of who made these parts for Jeep originally. The ball joints were Dana, and came with the axles. Other parts - the OEM was Jeep, through some supplier.

My opinion - maybe others will chime in. You can assess wear in these steering parts by inspection. Slop, clunka-clunka when moved, like that. In the garage, engine off and quiet, have an assistant move the steering wheel back and forth slowly and inspect the movement top to bottom. If it's really bad you should be able to see where the slop is, and feel it. If there's no obvious slop, I would look to the suspension geometry. The caster and camber are welded in to the axle. You can go to the alignment shop and they will set the toe and center the steering, but they can't do much more without taking the axle apart at additional charge. Get the printout from the machine and compare it to the numbers in your TSM. Factory springs? ANy lift?

[Greg72]

Hi tgreese,

Probably should have said "NOS" instead of OEM... basically just trying to say that at some point, the manufacturer had chosen parts for production based on certain specs, quality, etc. and I would like to get something of similar quality. It seems like the really low-cost "replacement" parts wear out quickly, or may not even fit properly in the first place. Would like to avoid all of that extra drama if possible.

This GW has a 2.5" spring lift on it currently... looks like a Rustys Offroad brand. The objective is to remove that and put a stock-height set of springs back on. I heard that Deaver builds the springs for BJs Offroad which is super cool, not sure if that is only for their lift springs or for the stock replacement units as well but Deaver has a great reputation for building really nice springs that ride soft and flex well.

Anyway... 1st priority is getting the scary steering resolved with the current suspension... it's low-hanging fruit that (as you mentioned) is pretty easy to diagnose.


-G

[tgreese]

Hi -

There's your problem. You need caster shims, I expect. Caster pushes the steering to center. Get the printout. You probably have zero caster angle. 5-7 degrees positive is good for a Jeep.

If you go back to factory height, that will fix the caster unless the axle is bent. Replacing steering parts won't help if the caster angle is too small.

casterangle.png

[Greg72]

That's a good point.

Maybe I'll just bring it to a local alignment shop and have them do a quick evaluation of my current setup.... they should be able to gather all of this data (including caster) so I know what I'm dealing with.

In the Jeep world is there a "bolt on" caster shim that I can install directly to the leafspring packs (and a new center pin) so that it isn't just clamped to the axle? That always gives me an uneasy feeling....

-G

[tgreese]

Standard alignment will give you the printout, but you will have to ask for it.

U-bolts off, raise the axle, remove the spring center bolt to add the caster shims. The shims are held in place by the spring center bolt and become part of the spring pack. Easiest to get a new spring center bolt that's long enough to draw the pack together, then cut it off. I think Speedway has shims, or? Get steel ones, not aluminum. Not terrible - I added shims to my CJ.

[Yeller]

That's a good point.

Maybe I'll just bring it to a local alignment shop and have them do a quick evaluation of my current setup.... they should be able to gather all of this data (including caster) so I know what I'm dealing with.

In the Jeep world is there a "bolt on" caster shim that I can install directly to the leafspring packs (and a new center pin) so that it isn't just clamped to the axle? That always gives me an uneasy feeling....

-G

If you have a level with degrees marked on it, even a level app on your phone. It is easy to see where caster is. place the level on the bottom of the lower ball joint with the level pointing front to back. That degree reading will be caster. anything under 3-1/2 degrees needs more. just be mindful that is is very difficult to get more than 5 degrees without running into other issues. according to a few engineers I know, they say 6.5 is optimal but we know as little as 2-1/2 and as much as 12 will drive well. my truck is at 3-1/2 and drives very well. 3-1/2 was the magic point where it drives well and where the other complications began to be an issue, but I do not have a stock anything except the axle housing. If it wasn't for those issues it would be at 6 degrees.

On the notes of caster, I have a truck that is at 11.5 degrees. It tracks incredibly straight, but the steering is very heavy. Manual steering trucks have as little as .5 degrees of caster to increase the ease of steering. Power steering allowed the caster angle to increase, which also enhances tracking and prevent the dreaded "Death Wobble".

[Greg72]

Hi tgreese,

YOU CALLED IT!!!!

Check out these numbers... just got back from a "free alignment check" place down the street.






Caster is NON-EXISTENT.... actually it's worse than that, it's actually a negative value. So it looks like my best first option is to find a 7* caster shim set and some longer leafpack bolts and get those swapped in ASAP.

Thanks for the help and insights.

-G

[Yeller]

OOOOOOO I bet that does drive like it has parts falling off

a set of these will make it feel like its on rails in comparison.
https://www.amazon.com/Omix-Ada-18206-0 ... r=8-3&th=1

[Greg72]

OOOOOOO I bet that does drive like it has parts falling off

a set of these will make it feel like its on rails in comparison.
https://www.amazon.com/Omix-Ada-18206-0 ... r=8-3&th=1

Cool! Ordered a set of those and will be here Friday!

What is the typical center pin bolt diameter? Is it 5/16"? I tried to take a measurement with my digital calipers and got 3/8" which does not seem correct... but maybe that's what the Rusty's Offroad kit comes with on their lift springs... dunno.


-G

[Yeller]

Can be either one. Most are 3/8, but some were 5/16. FYI you don’t need a specific bolt. You can use any grade 5 bolt and grind the head round. Before you remove the existing bolt put a C clamp on each side of where the axle sits and you don’t have a bucket of monkeys to deal with getting it all put back together. Let’s you remove the bolt, install new parts and tighten the nut and be done.

Edit: PS other than the caster the alignment looks decent. Might could use a touch more toe in but not enough to worry about as long as drives good. Which hopefully it’s about to be a new world.

[Greg72]

Can be either one. Most are 3/8, but some were 5/16. FYI you don’t need a specific bolt. You can use any grade 5 bolt and grind the head round. Before you remove the existing bolt put a C clamp on each side of where the axle sits and you don’t have a bucket of monkeys to deal with getting it all put back together. Let’s you remove the bolt, install new parts and tighten the nut and be done.

They are typically fine thread bolts though, right? Might be a little harder to source locally but I can probably get them in time for the weekend from BoltDepot or McMaster-Carr if I order today.

-G

[Yeller]

They do not need to be fine thread. I’ve had a several sets of springs show up coarse thread from the manufacturer. IMO the fine thread thing is just old tech that some of has just hung on.

[tgreese]

Supposedly Napa stores have them in stock.

[why_rick]

Ran across a video on this topic today and the builder got some parts from rareparts.com

Link to video?

About to start a complete front end refresh (tie rod ends, draglink ends, balljoints) and would prefer to use high-quality OEM parts vs. cheap Chinese knockoffs. Any tips to find nice Dana/Spicer type stuff would be awesome.



-G

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzyXLgQoc5Q&t=144s

[devildog80]

My CJ5 I was able to use the existing spring pak bolt that was in it, as the shim does not need much to install. There was about an inch or so sticking out the bottom of my springs, and that was enough length to take it out, place my shim, and re-install. Just make sure to clean up the threads really good before removing the nut, and you should be ok.