Anybody else run into this?

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Topic author
sierrablue
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Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:02 pm
Location: MN/CO

Anybody else run into this?

Post by sierrablue »

When we were looking to get the ZJ put back together last year, as it had some rust issues (300k miles in the salty midwest as the daily driver will do that), we had a number of shops tell us they only worked on "real Jeeps" i.e. XJs and Wranglers. Even the guy we took it to, instead of fixing the subframe, he welded angle iron around the outside of it, and welded the control arm mounts to that. I mean I guess it works but it's such a freaking hack job...we'll get subframe strengtheners for it and I'll weld them
in myself.

Here are the stiffeners:
https://www.ironrockoffroad.com/product ... ction.html

But like seriously, I don't understand. Have other people run into issues with this, with non-Wranglers and XJs? Nobody does decent work on them unless you do it yourself it seems like.

Even on the XJ, it took us forever to find somebody who'd get a windshield for it. I mean not a huge deal or unexpected on the SJ for glass, but on the XJ it's super irritating. They even built those in this century.
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.
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Stuka
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Re: Anybody else run into this?

Post by Stuka »

A LOT of shops only want to work on new vehicles. They stay busy enough with those, and they just have no interest on working on something that isn't new and clean.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

rocklaurence
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Re: Anybody else run into this?

Post by rocklaurence »

Shops doing poor quality work wont be around for long. I've only done projects for customers a few times and I'd bid the job with available parts. For example: I had persons come to me and buy a D44 front axle to put under their Chevy [SAS] and ask how much it would cost to have me install it. I'd quote the build with the ORD axle swap kit and parts, Tom Woods drive shaft, steering etc. If they thought my price was too high, Id send them away. I'm not going to hack-together a system that has already been Engineered by a reputable company. That shop you used should have started with a kit like the one you listed.
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Yeller
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Re: Anybody else run into this?

Post by Yeller »

Sad and all too common. I'm on the same page as rocklaurence. Even though my specialty over the years has been custom axle /suspension swaps and designs I buy as much as I can. Unfortunately, in that world, just because someone engineered it doesn't mean it is good. Many folks designing suspension and axle parts shouldn't be.... Some have it going on but some of the popular ones are horrible.
The bus I ride is so short it is a yellow Smart Car full of squirrels, monkeys and clowns.

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Topic author
sierrablue
Posts: 1208
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:02 pm
Location: MN/CO

Re: Anybody else run into this?

Post by sierrablue »

Right; just since there ARE parts available, I don't understand it. And even if there weren't parts available, it's such a hack job, I'd have done that myself and been done with it if we'd have known. Oh, and that guy was supposed to take care of ALL the rust, and I ended up having to weld a patch in in the back corner because he didn't bother to fix it. I'll grant you, he did replace the front fenders, and the rocker panels, and did a good job with the paint (he ended up painting everything but the roof), but he didn't actually FIX half of our primary concerns.

Our stuff is clean and nice--we make sure it stays that way. The only thing against it is that it's old.

It's just...it makes me so mad that we decided to bring it into a shop to get it fixed right, and then the shop did pretty much the same job I could have done in a weekend, if that makes any sense. Paid him good money for a hack. Like I said the outside looks good and the normal body work he did a pretty good job with, but it's just so irritating.
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.

candymancan
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:32 pm

Re: Anybody else run into this?

Post by candymancan »

Its why i started learning to do my own repairs 13 years ago. No one would touch my 5.9 limited at 11 years old.. lol and when thry did thry lied took my money and didnt fix it.

One time i had a rust hole on the floorboard from it being wet.. under the carpet which is lined eith olastic... so the a.c drain would leak under it and i didnt know.. tiny hole bout size of your hand.

I did the prep work cut the hole cleaned it up.. paod a shop to weld the patch in.. they tack welded it on maybe 10 times then sprayed it with rubber undercoat called it a day.. It wasnt even sealed right.. i had to wire wheel it all clean and i learned to weld myself and fixed it properly.

Since that and other things.. i gabe up on shops.

One poked a hole through my 5.9 limited by putting the arm lift on my floorboard.. then denied it.

Another shop jacked my moms 4.0 zj on the ROCKERS.. not the frame... so to get the tires changed out they jscked it 8 feet in the air on the fragile thin rocker panels.. on the plastic.. mind you the rockers are rusted out.. i was mind blown.

For my wagoneer. I did 3 leaf springs years ago when i was putting new ones on... but pinched two nerves in my neck... excrutiating pain bed ridden for 2 months.. i contacted a Jeep suspension shop that specializes in Jeeps.

They wouldnt touch it. Jist 1 leaf spring. So yea shops and mechanics can kiss my a$$

As for the not a real Jeep comment. I had XJ and wrangler owners tell me my wagoneer isnt a real Jeep. I found XJ owners in general are usually snobs thinking they have the best and only Jeep ever built.

Honestly that angle iron hack job.. was on my 90 wagoneer.. it made the frame by the gas tabk rust 10x worse.. I know its done . But BEEP i woulda done it nyself.. cut it all out and welded in fresh steel.. not patchs over rust.... it isnt THAT hard to do.. takes a day at most.. even a little 90a flux welder can do it.


Its too bad you dont live near me . I would cut it out and welded in new metal.. no need for frame strengthening plates.
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)

Topic author
sierrablue
Posts: 1208
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:02 pm
Location: MN/CO

Re: Anybody else run into this?

Post by sierrablue »

I mean you're always gonna have problems with some shops. But body and fabrication shops KNOW they're expected to fix it and fix it right. That's literally their entire job--be picky and do it right.

That A/C issue is pretty common on the ZJs. We may cut the subframe open and redesign that drain, and then weld the frame back together. That way we don't have to worry about it anymore.

I mean the ZJs are basically luxurious XJs with a body kit and 3/4 ton components, and rear axle upgrades. They're totally different yet not. And honestly I don't blame the XJ guys; they're incredibly light and incredibly capable, and there are a lot of them.

We're gonna cut it and weld in fresh, and then we'll also do the strengtheners. We may also upgrade the X-member in the process, we'll see. After that we'll coat it all really well with POR-15 and call it done.

But it's no wonder everybody thinks it's so cool that I drive such an old Jeep. You can't find people to maintain them anymore, so you not only have to know how to drive it and like that it's not a new car, but you also have to be able to fix it. Not a problem for me but for a lot of my friends...
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.

OldFarmTruck22
Posts: 244
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2022 4:35 pm

Re: Anybody else run into this?

Post by OldFarmTruck22 »

sierrablue wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:16 am I mean you're always gonna have problems with some shops. But body and fabrication shops KNOW they're expected to fix it and fix it right. That's literally their entire job--be picky and do it right.

That A/C issue is pretty common on the ZJs. We may cut the subframe open and redesign that drain, and then weld the frame back together. That way we don't have to worry about it anymore.

I mean the ZJs are basically luxurious XJs with a body kit and 3/4 ton components, and rear axle upgrades. They're totally different yet not. And honestly I don't blame the XJ guys; they're incredibly light and incredibly capable, and there are a lot of them.

We're gonna cut it and weld in fresh, and then we'll also do the strengtheners. We may also upgrade the X-member in the process, we'll see. After that we'll coat it all really well with POR-15 and call it done.

But it's no wonder everybody thinks it's so cool that I drive such an old Jeep. You can't find people to maintain them anymore, so you not only have to know how to drive it and like that it's not a new car, but you also have to be able to fix it. Not a problem for me but for a lot of my friends...
There nothing "3/4 ton" about a zj. I owned a few. Last one a 1995 Orvis Edition bought new with the upgraded 'Up Country' suspension option. They are not 3/4 ton by any means and not even 1/2 ton. My 96 XJ is built heavier from the factory. Just wanted to clear that up.
78 FSJ AMC 360 Quadratrac

Topic author
sierrablue
Posts: 1208
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:02 pm
Location: MN/CO

Re: Anybody else run into this?

Post by sierrablue »

What, you're convinced that anything I say is inherently wrong now, so you're going around to say that I'm wrong about everything? Because I'm young it's impossible for me to know anything? I know how to read and search. You can try and convince others that I don't know anything; I'm sure I'll be wrong sometimes about what I say and you'll have a field day, but honestly you're wasting your time dismissing everything I say because I said it. Other people can choose whether or not they think what I say is valuable/correct😂😂😂

Also look at the lower steering shaft on a ZJ sometime. And the swaybars and such. Heavier duty than the XJ ones; the XJ and ZJ are parked next to each other in the garage--I can go get pictures if you need them.
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.

OldFarmTruck22
Posts: 244
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2022 4:35 pm

Re: Anybody else run into this?

Post by OldFarmTruck22 »

sierrablue wrote: Fri May 05, 2023 6:10 pm What, you're convinced that anything I say is inherently wrong now, so you're going around to say that I'm wrong about everything? Because I'm young it's impossible for me to know anything? I know how to read and search. You can try and convince others that I don't know anything; I'm sure I'll be wrong sometimes about what I say and you'll have a field day, but honestly you're wasting your time dismissing everything I say because I said it. Other people can choose whether or not they think what I say is valuable/correct😂😂😂

Also look at the lower steering shaft on a ZJ sometime. And the swaybars and such. Heavier duty than the XJ ones; the XJ and ZJ are parked next to each other in the garage--I can go get pictures if you need them.
I don't need pictures of anything son ... I owned a few of them both before you were born. :lol: :-P :lol:
One or two components do not make an entire chassis a "1/2 ton or 3/4 ton" truck. That's just rediculously uneducated logic. Go today and have a building supply load 1500 lbs of sandbags into the cargo area of a factory ZJ. Let me know how that works out for you.
Not even 1000 lbs is gonna drive very far safely without breakage. and please don't tell me about all the modifications you made to your ZJ or XJ, that would not be Factory Trim.
Quit saying funny rediculous things just to see yourself post crap. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Keyboard Cowboy
78 FSJ AMC 360 Quadratrac
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