67' J-3000 Gladiator

[CasualYT1300]

Hi, just wanted to introduce myself and the new project. My name's Kris, I just picked up this 1967 Jeep Gladiator from Grand Junction, CO a couple days ago. I'm in Northern Utah and it was a long day trip to pick up the truck. I'm still making an assessment about what needs done, but I've got a starter from the previous owner to install and then I'll see if I can get it to turn over. The good: The exterior of the cab is pretty solid, the frame is pretty rust free, the windows roll down, the previous owner has replaced the coil, cap, rotor, points, condenser, wires and plugs, ignition switch and key, etc. It looks like the mechanical fuel pump has been bypassed and an electric one has been added inline. I have a suspicion that the alternator has been replaced with a gm one wire and the external regulator bypassed, but I need to confirm that.
The bad: needs suspension, brakes, tires, a floor, new bed, some free time and some cash!

I'm still deciding how I want to build it out--I think that it would be a pretty stellar daily/run around truck with some weekend warrior capability. I am leaning toward building a bobbed flat bed, 33x10.5 BFG KO2s, and keeping that sweet patina. Anyway, I'll try to keep you posted as I figure this project out.

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[Srdayflyer]

recommend removing the plugs spray some penetrant oil in the jugs and turn the motor by hand at the balancer to make sure nothing is frozen up if you have a frozen jug you may do more harm than good if that hurdle checks out, reinstall plugs and try to fire it up, just my opinion

[Srdayflyer]

recommend removing the plugs spray some penetrant oil in the jugs and turn the motor by hand at the balancer to make sure nothing is frozen up if you have a frozen jug you may do more harm than good if that hurdle checks out, reinstall plugs and try to fire it up, just my opinion

[tgreese]

Anything with leaf springs that old will need new springs. Just the nature of them - they go flat with age.

This is a 327/automatic truck? What's your GVWR? It's in the VIN. J-3000 is just a wheelbase designation - could be one of a few different GVWRs. Brakes could be a big issue depending on the GVWR.

Bed looks good from here. Why do you need a bed? Seems unlikely you will find a good bed mated to a junker truck - that's the empty set of possible combos. The early single wall beds don't rust much, and they are easier to repair than the later double-wall beds. I'd think repair is your best option.

I think that's right, you want to see if it turns freely. Use a wrench on the crank bolt first. There are a lot of recipes on the net for freeing a frozen engine, if you find that. Put some oil on top of the pistons - ATF, Marvel Mystery Oil, various other concoctions.

Cool - welcome from Boston.

[CasualYT1300]

@Srdayflyer - The motor turns by hand, nothing's frozen up.
@tgreese - It's a 4 speed. It has the T18 transmission and Dana 20 transfer case. GVWR is 5000#. Brakes are an issue already, it looks like I need to do all new brake lines at a minimum. The bed is rotted through, it's the worst close to the cab where there's spots that are 3-4" wide missing, but most of it along the perimeter where the bed meets the sides is pretty rough. I have access to a bunch of angle iron that's up for grabs, and if I build a flat bed I can load pallets from the side. I'm also looking forward to building some tool/recovery/random stuff boxes under the flat bed.

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IDK how heinous a crime I've done crossing the streams, but was missing the air cleaner and found one on ebay for a Chevy 327 that fit perfectly and was less expensive than a generic stamped air cooler and quite a bit less than a new Holley to match the carb. It's got a decent k&n filter, so that will hold me over till I can pick up a new one.

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It looks like the alternator has been replaced by an internally regulated single wire, the mechanical fuel pump has been bypassed and there's a little electric inline pump there on the driver's side fender.

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[tgreese]

It's parts availability that could affect the brakes. 5000# GVWR has the 11"x2" Bendix brakes, which are common to a lot of Fords and widely available. Heavier GVWRs came with the 12"x2" brakes and drums are 100% unobtainium, extinct for decades.

You sure it's a T-18 and not a T-98? That's what I would expect with a 327. Nothing wrong with that, just the earlier version of the T-18 type. Again, parts could be an issue for a T-98 - not likely to break though.
http://www.ifsja.org/tech/figures/db.html#4-speed

I like the air cleaner. "High Performance" 327. Never seen a Chevy with valve covers like that. The AMC 327 is a good engine - keep oil in it and it will run a long time. Steel crank, steel rods, massive block. Parts will be scarce and expensive.

The alternator seems like a sensible replacement. Much more reliable than the OEM Motorolas. You only want to send like 30 amps to the ammeter though - known issue with dash fires. The Delco SI alternators are more than that. Lots here and at IFSJA to read about that topic.

Too bad about the bed. I would repair it. IMO the original bed has way more utility than a flat bed. There's another thread current here about such repairs.

[rocklaurence]

My first Jeep in 1980 was a '67 J2000 with Buick 350, T90 with Dana 20 Tcase. It was the fastest truck in town up to 40 mph

[CasualYT1300]

@tgreese I think I want to add a fuse block/relay, and replace all the wiring. I got underneath it and pulled the old starter yesterday, and its’s been 10/10 farmer repairs (nothing against farmers, my grandfather and uncles are ranchers and my father-in-law farms around 2000 acres) but sometimes repairs trend toward “good enough”. There’s quite a bit of garden hose underneath being used as abrasion resistance. But for sanity/safety sake, I think building my own wiring harness is the way to go.

Good to know about the breaks, I think replacing the front drums with disks is on my medium-term priority list.

I’ll have to go down the transmission rabbit hole, I am not sure that it’s a T-18.

For the bed, part of it is nostalgia too—I learned to drive my grandpa’s 1969 Ford Camper Special that had a flat bed, you put some wood slat sides on it and can haul all kinds of stuff. Growing up, we would fill the bench seat full of cousins to go move pipe go to water, or go fix fence.

@rocklaurence - I got going 70 down the Highway! With the Jeep on a trailer!

[tgreese]

Borg-Warner transmissions will have a tag under one of the top cover bolts with the Jeep Corp PN, a BW number and the designator. Often they are lost, but it should be there. Otherwise the type will be cast into the driver's side of the case. A T-98 says T-98 IIRC, and a T-18 will either say T-18 or 13-02.

If you want front disks, there are kits or you can assemble your own kit. This assumes you will keep the closed-knuckle front axle. All the Jeep closed-knuckle front axles use the same knuckles and are the same in this regard; CJ, Wagoneer, truck, etc. Many opt to modernize the axles to open knuckles, typically using parts from a later Jeep truck.

There are replacement gear-reduction starters available for the fractious original Prestolites. IIRC the exhaust goes close to the starter on a 327, and they get cooked.

The schematic is pretty simple. Your minimum-circuits hot rod wiring harness will work fine. Be sure to get one with enough wire length to reach the rear of the truck. There's none that have the type of connectors you'll need for the dash cluster, so you'll have to clip and splice or pry open the connector lugs or something. Many brands available, ranging from $25 on eBay to $500ish for Painless.

[Herk]

Cool old truck. I agree with Tim regarding the bed. It's just 18 gauge sheet metal, mostly flat easy to patch pieces. A flatbed could be fabricated, but it's probably at least as much work. As for a "bobbed" flatbed, you really won't be able to bob the rear of the frame much until you run into the spring hangers. The truck should have come with a T-98 if a 4 speed. Quick way to tell is location of reverse. T98 is behind 3rd. Since it's a 5000 GVW you may have the Dana 53 rear with 11" brakes. The 11" brakes are far easier to find parts for. A disk swap up front is also a good idea. You want the Delco based stuff not the Suzuki garbage.

[tgreese]

I would think the J3500 got a tapered 44, same as the Wagoneer. Same GVWR.

I agree a pickup should get the C10 parts. The Suzuki disk conversion is good for CJs. You can do the Chevy brakes using the junkyard and parts store and maybe some minor machining? I think you have to grind the corner of the caliper or such. Look online - it's been done a lot to older CJs with the 25 and 27 axle. Same for a 44.

[akguy09]

I say go for the flatbed...if i had to do it again, i would just do a Flatbed. Lots of function in a flatbed

[rocklaurence]

IMO, if your going to upgrade the axles, yank them out and replace them with '75-'79 J10 axles and springs. It'll be a lot cheaper and parts are more available. There's a guy here that has converted over to the new suspension on his '60 era Gladiator. Note: some Dodge trucks have the axles you'd need. Chevy's too but try to avoid the Chevy 10 bolt front axle.

[CasualYT1300]

It's been slow progress, but better slow than none. I got the truck moved up to a buddy's warehouse where it will spend the winter. This will be great, because I can work on it inside and it's out of sight and out of mind for my wife (who will be much more impressed with my purchase when I can drive it around)

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I've continued the investigation into what needs done, and picked up a service manual on eBay as well as some additional ignition and charging circuit parts.
I have decided to add a ford style starter solenoid, both for ease of turning the engine over while I'm under the hood and because the high torque starter I was given doesn't have a third post to connect to the ballast resistor. I'm new to automotive electrical (especially points and condenser) but from what I understand, when the key is turned all the way to the right you energize the ignition circuit. This kicks the starter solenoid that is internal to the starter motor shut and allows the starter motor to energize, kick the drive gear out, and try to turn the motor over. The key being set to ignition also needs to bypass the ballast resister (who's purpose is to limit voltage to the ignition coil during normal operation) so that the ignition coil gets the full 12v to pass on to the distributor that sends it on to the plugs, which arc to make a return path through the block to eventually to get to the battery negative.
Anyway, I got a good deal on an overkill starter solenoid--I understand that Littlefuse bought Cole Hersee. It's rated for 200a continuous use and has an IP66 rating for moisture and dust. The solenoid is around $215 from Mouser or if you look for the 24213-03, but it shows up on eBay for around $50 if you look for part #3867771C91. I may pick up a second one to switch the main power for my relay/fuse box. https://www.littelfuse.com/products/dc- ... 13-03.aspx

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I also tracked down a new ballast resistor, I don't know that mine is bad yet but for $8 or so it was cheap insurance. Ignition Voltage Resistor Part #: BK S43243 from the local Napa should be a good fit--it is raited for .5-.6 Ohms, and the factory specs call out .495-.605 Ohms.

ballast resistor specs.JPG

@tgreese I've done some more thought about the ammeter and not lighting it on fire. I got a good deal on a shiny Powermaster 67293 Alternator. It's supposed to be 150A at full load and 100A at idle, that should be more than adequate to recharge the battery and run accessories. I think I will wire it up like a 3 wire GM with a charge light rather than trying to make the wire run for an ammeter in the dash.

J-3000 Dash.jpg

I will have to see what kind of shape the temp gauge, fuel gauge, and speedometer are but hopefully we can get them all working and leave the instrument cluster pretty much as is. Since I am replacing all my wiring anyway, I think it makes sense to modernize the flasher and lights relays as well as convert to LEDs.
Another electronic load that I want to run on a relay is the fuel pump (since the old mechanical one was bypassed). Any recommendations on fuel pump options? I guess that there's the horn, heater blower, etc. that could be cleaned up by running them on relays and take the distribution and electrical load out of the instrument cluster/other mechanical switches.
I was thinking about replacing the heater controls that are left of the instrument cluster with a tach and voltmeter.

hacked together charging + ignition circuit 1.0.JPG

Anyway, does anyone see anything super heinous about this planned circuit?

I might have a bead on a set of axles from a '96ish F350 with wheels and tires and maybe a donor master cylinder and booster. Depending on what my buddy wants for them, it might end up being a more cost effective route than servicing/swapping the drums on the OEM Dana 44s, buying new tires, building up the 44s, etc. If I get lucky, I'll get the full F350 carcass to pull parts from.

[CasualYT1300]

Sweet sweet back of the cab patina.jpg

J-3000 Badging.jpg

327 v8 Badging.jpg

[CasualYT1300]

I was happily surprised cruising the local online classifieds to find a set of 31s for free! It's going to make for a great set of rollers till I buy some tires that I trust for daily driving (and the truck's reliable enough for it). I think that I want to run 33x10.5r15s, or 255/85r16s. I would have to get a set of 16" rims if I go that route.

New old tires.jpg

[tgreese]

Anyway, I got a good deal on an overkill starter solenoid--I understand that Littlefuse bought Cole Hersee. It's rated for 200a continuous use and has an IP66 rating for moisture and dust. The solenoid is around $215 from Mouser or if you look for the 24213-03, but it shows up on eBay for around $50 if you look for part #3867771C91. I may pick up a second one to switch the main power for my relay/fuse box. https://www.littelfuse.com/products/dc- ... 13-03.aspx1280_cCSknOrrmi0562c2.jpg
I also tracked down a new ballast resistor, I don't know that mine is bad yet but for $8 or so it was cheap insurance. Ignition Voltage Resistor Part #: BK S43243 from the local Napa should be a good fit--it is raited for .5-.6 Ohms, and the factory specs call out .495-.605 Ohms. ballast resistor specs.JPG
@tgreese I've done some more thought about the ammeter and not lighting it on fire. I got a good deal on a shiny Powermaster 67293 Alternator. It's supposed to be 150A at full load and 100A at idle, that should be more than adequate to recharge the battery and run accessories. I think I will wire it up like a 3 wire GM with a charge light rather than trying to make the wire run for an ammeter in the dash. J-3000 Dash.jpg
I will have to see what kind of shape the temp gauge, fuel gauge, and speedometer are but hopefully we can get them all working and leave the instrument cluster pretty much as is. Since I am replacing all my wiring anyway, I think it makes sense to modernize the flasher and lights relays as well as convert to LEDs.
Another electronic load that I want to run on a relay is the fuel pump (since the old mechanical one was bypassed). Any recommendations on fuel pump options? I guess that there's the horn, heater blower, etc. that could be cleaned up by running them on relays and take the distribution and electrical load out of the instrument cluster/other mechanical switches.
I was thinking about replacing the heater controls that are left of the instrument cluster with a tach and voltmeter.
hacked together charging + ignition circuit 1.0.JPG
Anyway, does anyone see anything super heinous about this planned circuit?

Regarding the electrical issues, I took a look at your diagram and it seems ok. Depending on what your replacement starter is, it may include a solenoid. On a Ford, the solenoid is separate, like you show. The Ford starter energizes the field to throw the gear, then switches the armature on when the gear is engaged. GM includes the solenoid on the starter, and it does double-duty of first throwing the drive gear into the ring gear and switching the field and armature once the gear is engaged. What does the Prestolite do originally? Likely a replacement geared starter will emulate its electrical configuration.

You'll need a connection from the battery to the alternator, and from the battery to the dash and lights. Typically both of those are protected from the battery by a fusible link. A '67 may pre-date the use of fusible links. With a starter solenoid, you only need the thick cable to the starter from the solenoid. If the starter has a second connection, likely the starter handles the high-current switching like a GM starter, and the fender mounted solenoid is redundant.

The green wire is correct. I don't think you need to be very particular about the ballast resistor resistance rating accuracy; back in the day, we sold a ballast resistor for a Dodge as a generic replacement for any car. https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dod ... istor,7052 You protect the coil from excess current and overheating with the resistor; any application that use the same coil (Standard UC12 or equivalent) can also supply a ballast resistor. https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dod ... +coil,7060

You show an LED in place of the AMP light - maybe that's not what you intend? Possible you could do that; a diode will definitely work (but not light), as will an incandescent bulb. To use an LED, you need to current-limit the LED with a resistor in series. The LED current may not be enough to excite the alternator - check the spec sheet for any LED you want to try.

Suggest you post any ongoing tech questions in one of the tech forums here.

hth!

[CasualYT1300]

tgreese, thanks for the thoughtful and helpful reply!

starter motor comparison.jpg

From what I can tell, the replacement starter is a high-torque generic starter. When I power the starter motor, it kicks the pinion gear forward. When I disconnect power from the switch terminal, the pinion gear returns. The starter motor solenoid will be triggered by the main solenoid.

starting motor switch cover 327.JPG

starting motor wiring diagram original.JPG

Here's how the wiring was set up originally.

I am planning on adding a fuse+relay box inside the cab for lights and accessories. I didn't map it out on my charging/ignition diagram to keep things simple. Adding a fusible link inline is a good idea. I ended up going with a 1 wire alternator https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-67293 like this--it looks like it excites itself internally. I can still add the charging light, I will have to see what kind of draw the charging light would normally take and add a resistor to make up the difference like you suggested.

optional charge indicator.JPG

[tgreese]

Looks to me like the geared starter has two connections. I don't understand what you mean by "powering the starter." It kicks out the gear with power to the smaller connection, but does not run? Or it kicks out the gear and runs when you power the big connection?

I'd skip the relay to power the dash and lights. Your wiring harness should have a 12 or 10 ga wire going to the battery - that's plenty to power lights and ignition. Typically you'd connect at the starter solenoid through a fusible link 16 or 14 ga resp, right at the solenoid.

As you point out, a "one wire" alternator is made to self-excite without the exciter current that normally comes through an amp light, or a resistance wire. They've repurposed that connection as an AMP light.

[iharding]

Looks to me like the geared starter has two connections. I don't understand what you mean by "powering the starter." It kicks out the gear with power to the smaller connection, but does not run? Or it kicks out the gear and runs when you power the big connection?

The 327 starter is an odd duck. It has constant 12v power to the main terminal and an integral “solenoid” that pushes the gear out and subsequently closes the circuit to the motor. When I got my truck the internal “solenoid” had failed such that the motor power circuit was always closed. The motor would run whenever power was applied, which is always by default.

Installing an external solenoid would seem to be the fix, except that the gear would not engage as it is explicitly engaged by the internal “solenoid”. When I got the truck it had an external solenoid wired to the key which would spin the starter. It also had a momentary button wired to the internal “solenoid”. The starting procedure was to turn the key to “on”, push and hold the momentary button the engage the gear, then turn the key to power the external solenoid and energize the motor. Let go of both when it starts.

I did not like this. I bought an adjustable delay circuit board and set it to about 1 second and wired it from the hot side of the external solenoid to the now only half functional solenoid connection of the starter. Works fine.

I just ordered my gear reduction starter yesterday. Looking forward to a stronger starter.