Been Away, Ups and Downs, and a '65 Wagoneer

[Kowpie]

Greetings all!
Been away for a while. Life has had its way with me. Lost my Dad last year, Mom moved in with us, Daughter getting a divorce, close friend who taught me a lot about being a man when I was young is on a painful slide into dementia, and plenty of issues at my plant. Trying to get back on track.
Well, anyhow... The wife and I came home with a fun addition yesterday. Looking forward to a new project. Been looking for this one for quite some time! My bride has made me promise to build a goat shelter for the second oldest son's family farm first, and then she wants her very own 14x24 shop. THEN and only then, can I start on this! I don't mind though, she's been good to me and I do love to build trucks and shops!
Supposed to be a 1965. It has an independent front suspension and the 230 cubic inch 6 cylinder and 3-speed on the column. I haven't dug into it yet so we shall see. The guy I bought it from did nothing with it. Said he got it last year for a project then his health failed him and everything had to go. The guy he got it from was local and used it on his ranch for the last 30+ years as an errand runner and critter feeder.
Looking for input on what it is and where to go from here. I'm looking to keep it original and driving the heck out of it.

[Kowpie]

A few more pictures...

[Srdayflyer]

dont know a whole lot about this model year but most waggys from just about all years body and interior parts will work however the drive train can be a bit more difficult to find parts , that hurricane engine parts are a bit tough to find an engine swap might be considered, there is someone here that has the same model series who may be of help as he was looking for a spare drive train for parts, but the support help is here just read the back blogs and you will probably find any answer ur looking for

[tgreese]

Wow, a 230 and IFS. I'd be interested in some views of the IFS stuff. The parts catalog shows it... I wonder how many they actually built, and how many are still on the road. Maybe down to a handful, if that.

[Kowpie]

I will get some pictures posted of the IFS soon. Hoping to get a closer look at it this weekend. A casual glance under it last night shows it to be quite involved and unique for sure. The flex boots at the knuckles are impressive in size. Additionally, torsion bar suspension! The steering linkage is elaborate and convoluted. The steering gear is aluminum and located nearly directly under the brake master cylinder. From there, the drag link? heads forward for connection to the center link. Atypical would be an understatement.

[Stuka]

Wow, thats a rare setup! I still have never seen an IFS rig in person.

[sonic4014]

Great find and a great way to get away from things!

[Yeller]

Looking forward to following along. I’ve never seen the IFS either so really looking forward to the pics.

[Kowpie]

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/vintage ... o-nowhere/

Like you guys as well, I've never seen IFS on one of these or even knew much about them. Found a neat article at Curbside Classic.

[Kowpie]

Some pictures of the steering, suspension, and engine. I was able to get it running and moving in and out of the shop over the weekend and it sounds decent. The intake and exhaust rockers really do share the same camshaft lobes! I've started doing some searching and ordered a service manual, but I thought it might be wise to check with the collective wisdom of y'all... Who is a source for information and or parts/pieces for the 230 OHC and this IFS? I've found a scattering of a couple of parts but nothing helpful. I knew this was going to be tough and I enjoy the challenge of the hunt but this looks to be a rough time. Looks like I might be fabricating, modifying, and making use of the best of used parts for this. Thanks for the help. I posted in the parts wanted section for some of the following items if anyone knows of some of this stuff:
Rear seat, all four door arm rests, right front fender "Jeep" emblem, mechanical fuel pump, steering bellcrank and tie rod ends, all front suspension bushings.

[Kowpie]

More...

[Yeller]

That is unique for sure. I can see how that would drive nice

[230ohc]

That thing is sweet, oh my! You've got all the neatest options except power assist. 3 on the tree? How fun

[Kowpie]

That is unique for sure. I can see how that would drive nice

I am hoping so. Right now it moves close to a half a turn before the wheels move at all. There is a LOT of play in the bellcrank and that funky dual inner tie rod end setup. I have had zero luck finding those items. Fabricating is probably in my future. I haven't fabbed on steering stuff before, seems a little intimidating since steering keeps you in your lane as you drive down the road with the oncoming fellow at a combined 100 mph! I've seen spherical rod ends used for this before but it has all been for off-road stuff.

That thing is sweet, oh my! You've got all the neatest options except power assist. 3 on the tree? How fun

So 230ohc... by your handle one is to assume you know of these unique engines? Got any tips or places for knowledge and parts?

[Yeller]

For the steering I’d relocate the box and use GM style idler arm that those 2 tie rods attach to very similar to what you have, just no bell crank. Geometrically the 2 tie rods attaching in the center look very good. Without that the toe adjustment moves as the suspension cycles, making for some quite squirrelly handling.

I’ve worked on some Ford TTB steering and this is similar but in my opinion superior, it has a means to change camber, important to handling and tire life.

[Kowpie]

For the steering I’d relocate the box and use GM style idler arm that those 2 tie rods attach to very similar to what you have, just no bell crank.

Steering Diagram.jpg

Are you thinking something like this? If so, interesting... If the dimensions don't add up, would you have any qualms about cutting and welding a centerlink or adjusting sleeve?

[Yeller]

For the steering I’d relocate the box and use GM style idler arm that those 2 tie rods attach to very similar to what you have, just no bell crank.

Steering Diagram.jpgAre you thinking something like this? If so, interesting... If the dimensions don't add up, would you have any qualms about cutting and welding a centerlink or adjusting sleeve?

That’s exactly what I had in mind. There’s a lot of ways to accomplish that. I can promise it will require fabrication of the center link. Wheels pointed straight ahead needs the tie rods to be as close together as possible. And as near the same elevation plane of the center pivot of the front axle as possible. There is nothing wrong with fabricated parts as long as they are robust and serviceable. I’m not there and measuring and pondering but I have used 3/4x2” 1018 bar to make a center link.

Or recreate the existing system with heavier parts and power steering. I don’t have an issue with the bell crank but they are so wear prone, I’ve designed a few of those as well, had to build some very robust bearing assemblies with some impressive mounting to get them to be happy. Now it was a different application that lived a hard life but finally got it there, even at that it was a frequent maintenance item.

[tgreese]

Mmm. If this car has any value, it's as an example of a super-rare optional configuration. Belongs to you - it's your right to do with it as you wish.

Also, how do you plan to use this Jeep? If you want a trail or overlanding Jeep, it seems like a poor candidate to start with.

Looking at the parts book, all these early J-series have Ross steering. The IFS steering has different part numbers for some pieces, but I suspect the IFS stuff shares most internals with other Ross steering equipped vehicles. The CJs with Ross steering have a Ross gear mounted inboard of the frame rail, and half-way between the firewall and the front axle. There is also a drag link from the steering gear to the bell crank, and a left and right tie rod from the bell crank to the knuckles. Many early CJ owners have repaired their Ross steering - as I recall, the main issues have been the pivot pin in the steering gear, and the bell crank bearings. Possible some of these CJ parts will work in the current vehicle.

The book also shows optional power steering for the 230 Jeeps, with a power ram and a valve body outside the steering gear.

JMO - I would not be too hasty to condemn any part of the original equipment. Maybe make friends with a machinist that could refurb or fab the worn parts of the Ross steering, as needed. Plenty of precedent for that in the CJ world.

[Kowpie]

There is nothing wrong with fabricated parts as long as they are robust and serviceable. I’m not there and measuring and pondering but I have used 3/4x2” 1018 bar to make a center link.

Good to know. Thanks for the advice. I can cut, bend, and weld but this might be on another level. I have a great fabricator here locally who has done some good work for me. I might talk with him about it.

[Kowpie]

Mmm. If this car has any value, it's as an example of a super-rare optional configuration. Belongs to you - it's your right to do with it as you wish.

Also, how do you plan to use this Jeep? If you want a trail or overlanding Jeep, it seems like a poor candidate to start with.

Looking at the parts book, all these early J-series have Ross steering. The IFS steering has different part numbers for some pieces, but I suspect the IFS stuff shares most internals with other Ross steering equipped vehicles. The CJs with Ross steering have a Ross gear mounted inboard of the frame rail, and half-way between the firewall and the front axle. There is also a drag link from the steering gear to the bell crank, and a left and right tie rod from the bell crank to the knuckles. Many early CJ owners have repaired their Ross steering - as I recall, the main issues have been the pivot pin in the steering gear, and the bell crank bearings. Possible some of these CJ parts will work in the current vehicle.

The book also shows optional power steering for the 230 Jeeps, with a power ram and a valve body outside the steering gear.

JMO - I would not be too hasty to condemn any part of the original equipment. Maybe make friends with a machinist that could refurb or fab the worn parts of the Ross steering, as needed. Plenty of precedent for that in the CJ world.

Good to hear from you Tim. Yes, my goal is to leave this alone and in as close to original as possible. I've just started hunting for some of the essentials and have not done well with the front end components. If it comes down to it, was wondering what options I might have for the steering. Mr. Yeller has provided food for thought.

As for use, this will mostly tug around the small vintage travel trailer that I restored or haul the grandkids to ice cream. The back story of the rig said it lived a hard life on a ranch, so it deserves a life of fun and leisure.

This is manual steering and my plan is to keep it that way.

These folks: https://www.willysjeepparts.com/Steering_Assembly.htm Appear to show the similar steering items that you speak of. I might have a conversation with them and see if they know of similarities. Is this style considered "Ross" steering?

Thanks