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mineral co wrote:I'll get the SES function hooked up and see what happens.
I did find a pretty good 7427 wiring diagram. It details all the sensor, injector, fuel pump relay, ESC/ignition, and EGR wiring. Most all of the wire colors were a match as well. The only two issues on it is that the swithed DC+ does not match my harness, and it doesn't show which power rail the SES light is connected to. All in all, not bad.
When you blow it up far enough to be usuable it starts to get pretty grainy, but I've rung out my JY '95 Yukon 7427 harness and it does match exactly, except for the two above mentioned deviations. In my JY harness the pins E15 and F15 are tied together (a factory splice).
Okay, I guess there is a third deviation. Pin locations F2 and F3 have nothing in them.
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I'm still collecting parts and pieces for this project, as well as considering other things I want to do to the truck, and two different subjects have crossed paths.
I need to get a WB O2 sensor and gauge, plus I really want to upgrade all the gauges in the truck. If at all possible, I want to keep all this clean and neat. I know I can get six of the 2-1/16" gauges plus a standard 3-3/8" speedo into the space of the current cluster and, at first, that seemed like it should be more than enough. Turns out that ain't necessarily so.
I'm wondering how the folks that already have a WB gauge go about using it? I would like to have it in the main instrument cluster, but is this the best place? Having an output from this instrument that was being logged with the rest of the PCM data would seem cover all the bases, and the gauge itself could stay in a nice permanent location in the cluster. Is there any reason why this might not be true?
A related desire is to have gauges in the cluster look the same, and this is no small trick. Even with the wide variety of Auto-Meter gauge styles, it still can't be done (though you can get close). To meet this goal using Auto-Meter gauges, you have no choice but to use the electronic analog version. Has anybody had an experience that says that is not an acceptable way to go? Is there any reason why a digital numeric display (and even a ring of LEDs around the perimeter) is desireable?
At this point, it looks like I'm going to want a seventh small gauge. If necessary, this will probably spill over to the space currently occupied by the ash tray in the dash. But I would like this to be the least necessary guage with the hopes that it could be eliminated in the future. This seventh gauge will be a fuel pressure gauge. However, if I should have a WBO2 gauge that is something other than an analog version, it would be the odd-ball in appearance and would be located where the ash tray currently is.
I'll make a separate post about why I think I might want an in-cabin fuel pressure gauge.
And then there is the problem of fuel pumps and fuel pressure (and filters and gas tanks). I thought this would be a lot simpler to make a decision on than it is turning out to be.
For every post across the 'net that says somebody has had zero problems with a certain pump, there is another post from somebody else saying that they've had nothing but problems with the same pump. For every post saying that a given pump is self-priming, there is another post saying its not. For every post that says that a given pump has run for seven years with no problems, there is another that says it didn't last three months.
And fuel pressure! What a load of mis-information about that out there!
What's really annoying is that finding real and practical technical information from even the name brands is next to impossible (at least up to this point).
Right now, I'm leaning towards the Carter P5001 pump for my project. I couldn't find any tech data on the Carter websites, but various retailers' websites say this is a 20 PSI @ 50 GPH pump (do you trust everything you read on a retailer's website?). In theory, delivery must be higher at a lower pressure, and vice-versa.
GM technical data says that the pressure regulator in the TB unit should be set between 9 and 13 PSI. The concensus across the 'net is that fuel delivery on the TBI in stock form is barely adequate for a normal 5.7, and that the pressure should be bumped up to the high end of that range, or even a little higher, to avoid starvation under worst-case scenarios. 13.5 to 14.5 is the typically advised range.
Of course, any altering of the pressure means re-writing of all your fuel tables.
While there are people out there that "get it", they are certainly in the minority. I was shocked at how many folks advise others something to the effect of: "GM says 9 - 13 PSI so, so long as your pump keeps the system in that range, you're fine!".
Uhh, nooooo!
As the generally smarter folks on this board already know, the pump must always keep the fuel delivery pressure above what ever the regulator is set for, regardless of the delivery rate, otherwise the system is in "starvation" mode. (I wonder how many there are out there that have been trying to compensate for that in their fuel tables!)
Likewise, you can't force too much fuel through the system or you will over power the regulator (and/or possibly the fuel return back to the tank) and it won't matter what the set pressure is, the system will still be operating at an actual pressure that is higher than the set pressure. (More fuel table problems!)
Considering the nearly complete lack of technical data on the various pumps being used (and the widely varying opinions expressed by users), it is next to impossible to make even a semi-intelligent decision on a pump.
I screwed up and considered my regulator problem before considering the pump (the spring in my JY TB's regulator was broken into three pieces). I decided to get an adjustable regulator (not a mistake), but get a simple, removeable gauge, set the pressure, and move on to other things (the fuel pressure gauge is already on its way here). Well, after considering all the potential fuel pump problems, I think there is no other fool-proof way to know if the pump is right (not under-driving or over-driving the system) than to be able to monitor fuel pressure at the inlet to the TB on an on-going basis.
I don't know any other way to evaluate a pump's suitability (reliability is a whole other issue) and, so far, I haven't seen a single post out there from somebody else that has done this for a comparable application.
So, I'm going to start out with what amounts, really, to nothing more than a SWAG. The Carter P5001's numbers (20 PSI @ 50 GPH, as stated by retailers) are good, and this pump has a lot fewer negative comments from users than some of the other common pumps, and nobody disputes that this pump truly is self-priming (and can be mounted as much as two feet above the tank). Hopefully, I won't have to try too many different pumps before getting a winner.
Perhaps you should limit your searching to those that are from people that have done more than one installation!
As you have found, there is a lot of misinformation out there.
I'm sure people don't intend to do it but simply don't know better and most just repeat what they have read with no real experience on the subject.
Personally...I have found the P5001 to be noisy and is too close to min specs needed for my liking. IIRC AFI used to use them and the AFI systems I had to fix, I could hear the customer driving up the road by the noise from the pump over the engine. If in tank then go with the TPI pump vice the TBI pump. There are several pumps listed in the FAQs that all meet the specs and I have not seen any post to suggest an issue with any of them so you must be reading else where.
You already know where there is proven information yet you seem to be determined to try and find post to dispute it.
You give me the sense that you are some kind of engineer that must over think everything. In the Navy our nuclear engineers would explain it to us like this, If given a 50/50 question, an engineer will talk himself into the wrong answer 90% of the time!
Another point is that there are many ways to accomplish the same task and neither may be wrong, just different.
And why would you presume to tell me how I should go about getting my education?
Or, are you of the opinion that you are the only one allowed to express his thoughts on the subject in a public forum? Are you concerned that somebody else might actually come to understand this stuff?
You don't know jack BEEP about me, or my background. You also have no idea what motivates me. But here's one little tid-bit for you to think about. I'm largely disabled, and it has cost me a lot of my freedom. The one thing I won't let go of until I absolutely have to is getting out into the mountains in any way I can. If I break down, I may be in serious trouble, to the point of it being life threatening. I can't walk ten miles out to get help.
I've made the concious decision to take some of these calculated risks, after all, if I'm to be stuck indoors the rest of my life, I might as well be dead anyway. So I'm going to take a few chances, but I'm not going to be stupid in the process. Do you think I'm more concerned about some noise than I am about reliability?
Yours isn't the only perspective in the world, and you owe me an apology.
Sure Chris,
Sorry your so sensitive and feel my comments were meant as some kind of personal attack instead of well meaning prods to keep you on the right track.
You seem to be placing some kind of emotions into the typed words on the screen and reading way more into them then was implied.
I wish you great success with your conversion. It looks like your doing great with your research.
That's an apology? Basically: "I'm sorry you're such a pussy" ?
Piss off. And please unsubscribe from any of my threads. I have no interest in reading anything you have to write as it contributes nothing to the subject.
I was wondering if we might get this thread back on track. I, for one, find your descriptions extremely valuable, Chris. You have indeed covered information I have not seen elsewhere and I was hoping for some "closure" I guess...or at least more tips! Have you completed the install?
1990 GW "saved by Jerry" edition
will e wrote:I guess life is better if you are not moving too fast.
I did not finish the install. The dead-line for doing anything out doors here is the end of October, and the problems with the 4" lift just went on and on. . . (well past the end of October, and they're not fully resolved yet even yet).
The plan is to start this exercise back up when the weather gets better in late Spring, funds permitting. I've got almost everything necessary, short only the fuel pump, bungs welded into the exhaust, and WB 02 sensor, a MAF, and some other small parts.
If one of the moderators would be willing to remove the four "problem" posts, I'll continue to post in this thread rather than start a new one.
