Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

[Lumpskie]

So, Wifey and I decided to take our 5 month old out on his first overnight camping trip. The local club I'm in was going up Payne Mtn. trail off of Argentine Pass, so we thought we'd tag along in the Waggy. Driving up out of Georgetown, everything was looking pretty promising. There was some snow but we didn't see anything deep on Guanella Pass.



Peanut (or Nutnut as we call her) was excited to be in the outdoors, as we aired down.


Once we got on the trail, things started out smoothly. The trail was rocky with 8-12" rocks to climb over. The Waggy did great. At this point we were driving in 4lo at 10,000ft and had no issues. Then we came around a bend and saw our first snow drift.



We made our way through the first drift and around another bend to find a MUCH larger snow drift.



Well... here goes nothing. He navigated our way about 30 feet before we got stuck. We backed up and went forward many many times but the snow was too deep.




With the help of my friends, we tugged the Waggy free. At this point, we decided to turn around and let the others proceed to the camp site.
With my lift coming next month, I really didn't want to risk damage to the old Waggy. So, we headed back down the trail alone.


And drove toward Idaho Springs, enjoying the view along the way.



That's it for now!

[Cheap Hobby]

Good for you
A man's got to know his limitations. I've turned back a couple times to "but you've got a full set of chains. " my answer yes the chains are to get me home bye bye. Call me when you are on dry ground.
Once you have the rig set up the way you want for what You want to do then you can gopher it. As long as every body riding with you agrees.

[Nikkormat]

Sweet! The snow steered me away from the gilpin county area this weekend, and it's good to see I was wise in staying away. I know I said I'd get you a flex picture, but I haven't found anywhere to try yet. Later this week I might be able to use a loading dock but no promises though. I broke my transfer case.

[Lumpskie]

Good for you
A and got a know his limitations. I've turned back a couple times to "but you've got a full set of chains. " my answer yes the chains are to get me home bye bye. Call me when you are on dry ground.
Once you have the rig set up the way you want for what You want to do they you can gopher it. As long as every body riding with you agrees.

Thanks for the kind words, Cheap Hobby. Yeah, there's always a part of you that feels a little down for being the only one to turn around but, at the end of the day, the only thing that really matters is getting home without any damage or injury. Like you said, this way I can always try again, once the lift comes in!

Sweet! The snow steered me away from the gilpin county area this weekend, and it's good to see I was wise in staying away. I know I said I'd get you a flex picture, but I haven't found anywhere to try yet. Later this week I might be able to use a loading dock but no promises though. I broke my transfer case.

No rush on the flex pics. I just think it would be a cool comparison between new and worn out suspensions. (Mine is totally shot!) Speaking of shot... what happened to your t-case?

[Lumpskie]

I picked up a reman smog pump from O'Reilly this weekend. Hopefully replacing it will take care of my low idle issues as well as that occasional clickity clack sound coming from under the hood.

[Lumpskie]

So, I started the smog pump replacement and things were going well.

My little helper was eager to get this show on the road:


Stock pump came out with not too much trouble but this is where things started going "less well". When I compared the old pump to the new, I could see that I was not going to be able to reuse the stock pulley bolts... the reman company had drilled them out and tapped new, MUCH smaller, holes.



The smaller bolts that went with these holes required an offset spacer to be put into the stock pulley. The problem with that is that you can only install the pulley once the pump is on the vehicle. AND these spacers have to be aligned because of the offset... which make for a blind job. And a real pain. Here's one of these idiotic things installed:


Anyway... I worked my way through that mess and got the pump and pulley installed. The belt was one and I only had one final pulley bolt to tighten... then this happened:


ARGH. Took the pump out and call O'Reilly Auto. They have to ship another one out so I'm stuck waiting now.

[Lumpskie]

Good News! I called O'Reilly's at 3pm and they said the pump was in! (don't know why they didn't bother to call me but, hey... I'll take what I can get)

Even better news! The newest pump doesn't use those idiotic small bolts/adapters! I can use the big, stock bolts. (Good thing I saved them) So... I used a punch to drive out the ridiculous hole adapters:



Then I threw the new pump in there: (it only took 10 minutes without those adapters)


Test drove it and there was no noise and the idle seems to be normal! (hopefully the idle stays good. I'm always skeptical when two problems get solved with one fix)

Sorry for the blurry pictures, but it was starting to rain and I had to hurry!

[Lumpskie]

I've got over 100 miles on the Waggy and it's running great. Actually, it's running better than it did before... it seems like it has more power. Would a new smog pump help scavenging from the exhaust and give me more power? (the old pump made a racket but, spinning it by hand, it didn't feel like there was a lot of resistance for parasitic loss...)

[Lumpskie]

I'm probably going to catch some flack for it but yesterday I ordered some Gabriel Guadian shocks at a ~14" compressed, ~24" extended length. They're not high quality shocks by any means, but they were $78 shipped to my door and the Gabriel's on the Waggy now seem to be working out well. Also, Bill at Alcan tells me that my springs will be ready to ship early next week. So, I'm hoping to have some new suspension under this thing soon.

I've heard stories about Wagoneer leaf springs being really hard to replace. Is that true? If so, what's so hard about it?

[Nikkormat]

The hard part is getting to the bolt and nut that's inside the frame rail on the end with the pocket. Sometimes you have to drop the tank if you can't get it on and off on the drivers side.

[Lumpskie]

^Wow, ok. I'll have to take a look at that tonight.

Has anybody ever just welded the nut on there to save the trouble?

[Cassidy]

I am currently fighting this problem....the nut is not my real problem the bolt is frozen in the sleeve and won't come out. I only had a problem with 1 bolt in the front suspension and it was easy to cut out with a cutting wheel, but you can't reach the front bolt on the rear springs that way.

[Lumpskie]

Are you using an impact wrench? (I was hoping that would be my ace-in-the-hole)

[Tatsadasayago]

1-2 days soak with penetrating oil, impact and heat if needed. They can be a real bear to remove. I've resorted to a long sawzall blade from below a few times in desperation.

[Tatsadasayago]

With the fuel tank removed the nut is easy to get to...of course.
Note the line across the lower part of the nut? Swaged to make it act like a locking nut aka: lots of effort needed to break it loose and remove.
When I've had the bushing sleeve rust to the bolt and it refused to budge I've resorted to heating the bolt until the rubber melted out then drive it outward with a hammer, then drift until the bushing broke loose. The worst one required an air chisel to split the sleeve. Not fun with limited room to work and a spring eye in the way.

[Lumpskie]

^You mentioning "rusting to the sleeve" is scaring me. I'm going to start hitting all the suspension hardware with penetrating oil today. Then, I'll hit it again on Monday and Wednesday next week. Hopefully this doesn't end up becoming a long, drawn out mess....

One more quick question on something I'm hoping one of you guys can confirm. Does anybody know the measurement for the distance between each of the legs of the u-bolts? I measured 3.16" and found a reference that the legs are 3.75" center to center. (which would put the distance in between at 3 3/16" or 3.18") At any rate, I just want to sanity check these numbers before sending them to Alcan, so your input is appreciated!

[Tatsadasayago]

3 3/16" is in the ballpark Lumpskie. I've seen new D44 U-bolts run up to 3.25 center to center and have to be squeezed together to fit through the holes in the plates. Nothing to freak out about. 3.75" is likely the Dana 60 dimension or the outside to outside measurement on the 3/8" U-bolts.

[Lumpskie]

Hey Tatsadasayago,

So, to be sure...

Bolt Diameter - 3/8"
Leg to leg inside distance - 3 1/8"

Does that sound right to you? (I ask because I saw a this spec: http://www.fsjjeepparts.com/j8129475.html)

As always, I appreciate the help!

[Tatsadasayago]

OK, I just went out and checked my 77 and found the U-bolts up front which are originals:
1/2" bolts.
3-5/8" inside to inside.
4-1/4" center to center.
4-5/8" outside to outside.
When I measured my rear bolts for you the other day I had forgotten that some joker had installed lift blocks and used 3/8" U-bolts with GM plates.
I just measured a stock 76 Wagoneer sitting in our RV storage and got different measurements for the rear axle:
9/16" bolts, 2-7/8" inside to inside of bolts.
3-1/2" center to center.
4-1/8" outside to outside.
These measurements were taken at the ends of the U-bolts by the way.
From these measurements it appears the U-bolts had to be squeezed together a bit to fit into the plates.

The FSJ Jeep Dana 44 rear axle tube is 3" in diameter although many parts suppliers think they are 2-3/4" like the Scouts etc.
Regardless of the width of the new U-bolts you are getting, the important thing is they fit around the axle tube.
Assuming you are using your existing spring plates, the issues you might encounter are: U-Bolts larger than the holes in your plates or U-bolts spread too far apart to squeeze together so they fit into the plates.

As far as your Alcan springs go, unless they are much wider or thicker than stock, the other dimensions don't matter.

[Lumpskie]

^Thanks for taking the time to get me that data, Tatsadasayago. You really got me thinking about my measurements. So I went back out and measured ALL the u-bolts and found something interesting.

In front: All the ubolts EXCEPT ONE were 3.125" spacing. The odd ball was at 3.685" I'm not sure what the deal is there. Looking up at where the u bole meets the axle, everything looks good, but it's a half inch out...

Rear: all of my measurements came out between 2.83 and 2.85"

One more quick question. When I measured my bolt diameters I was getting roughly .53 for all of the bolts in the middle and .565 at the threads. Where is the measurement typically taken? (should I just go with 9/16 regardless?)

Thanks for all your help,